What is considered a humane kill shot ?

The topic is what is considered a humane kill shot. Not ethics, not mercy killing, not euthanasia not perishable skills.

Wouldn't any sized projectile that physically entered a vital zone on a game animal resulting in quick death be a humane kill shot? Regardless of ethics, regardless of practice/skill, regardless of distance, regardless of caliber?

Ethics, intent and skill are not absolute in determining the end result of a humane kill, nor is the lack of same. The end results is the end result no matter how someone arrived there. Don't over think it.

However I do agree that the peripheral subjects(to this particular topic) like ethics, skill, recognizing that marksmanship is perishable, choosing the proper bullet/caliber are all important and play into fair chase hunting. I just don't think they define a humane game kill.

OK humour time... I think the only real sure fired way to make sure its a humane kill it probably using a rocket launcher. Or a grenade launcher. The poor things would see the rocket coming say oh DARN!! and Die before it hits them. The down side is the waste of a few pounds of meat. But it would be already barbequed. :):):)

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Originally Posted by terrym

This is correct. A bullet that won't expand at near muzzle velocities will expand even less downrange as it slows. This is why some bullets aren't good choices for close cover shots. They expand violently as they were desighned to perform a lower velocity. I am a firm believer in complete pass throughs and double blood loss holes. Better tracking and quicker drainage and blood pressure loss.

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Agreed. Bullet construction and impact velocity is a big factor. I witnessed with my own two eyes 16 deer shot this year. The smallest caliber being 25-06 and the biggest a .458 caliber muzzleloader. The furthest one maybe went 60 yards. On average a double lung shot went 30 yards. The only one that dropped was a neck shot at 20 feet with my 25-06. But keep in mind adrenaline is an amazing chemical!

Just do the shot that kills the animal. Do not shoot if you are not sure you hit vital organs.
Heart
Double lungs

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Originally Posted by cuulguy

Just do the shot that kills the animal. Do not shoot if you are not sure you hit vital organs.
Heart
Double lungs

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Boiler room, neck... that's another debate

But how an you be sure that you will hit double lung and heart? I can hit a deer with a 17 HMR in the heart and double lung. It won't go down. Not enough shock value.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Boiler room, neck... that's another debate

But how an you be sure that you will hit double lung and heart? I can hit a deer with a 17 HMR in the heart and double lung. It won't go down. Not enough shock value.

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The OP asked what is a humane shot - not what is a humane caliber. I am pretty sure the OP was working on the assumption that an appropriate caliber is being used. Using an appropriate caliber a heart and/or double lung is humane.

A 17 HMR is not appropriate and it is also illegal and I am pretty sure this is pretty universally understood.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Boiler room, neck... that's another debate

But how an you be sure that you will hit double lung and heart? I can hit a deer with a 17 HMR in the heart and double lung. It won't go down. Not enough shock value.

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17 HMR is not legal round for deer hunt. You should know it.

The minimum for deer is .243 here, so you are right. The right caliber, cannot be assumed. Assuming anything makes an.... you know. Lets go the other way, how about a .338? Or a 444 marlin? Still legal, but a little over kill if you ask me.

All I'm trying to say is to know where the shot goes you need to practice more than a few shots before hunting. The take 6 shots and get it in a 8 inch group? Not good!! You need to study to know the caliber is correct. Every manufacturer has ballistic tables. Study them.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

My point exactly. If you do not practice you do not know where you shoot. I've shot competitively and in the armed forces, where a long shot was to order of the day. Every year I practice about 200 rounds with each rifle I'm hunting with. Some because I enjoy it but also so when I'm in the field I can be my best, without question. With all my experience shooting, I guess I'm just incompetent and I need the practice I'd say who told me about missing if the deer goes further than 75 yards, but one you've already called a liar, and stupid. The others, well, between gunsmiths and hunters there is probably about 1000 years of experience. You probably don't believe them anyway

Yes Hunting, any part of it is about ethics. Especially when you are talking about humane shots. I have very little respect for anyone who takes an untried weapon into the field. Taking a couple shots doesn't cut it. Sawbill is absolutely right, you need to practice till you are positive you know exactly where your shot is going.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

I'm suggesting that if you practice and study your rifle and ammunition, you will reduce the chance of not having a humane kill. The first deer I took was south of Cambridge in the late 90's. I missed with a slug and it crumpled about 200 yards away. I learned to practice. Even with all I have shot, I thought shotgun..whats the big deal. Was the shot humane NO!! I should have known better but I made a mistake. I have shot almost 5 deer a year for the last 7 years. And helped my wife shoot her deer every year. All in all, I have never seen a deer go more than 20 yards in the last 7 years. That includes all my two son's deer and my daughter's deer. Then there are the deer I help hunt with friends. So all in all I shoot and help hunt almost 50 deer a year. I still never see a deer go more than 20 yards after its shot.

Am I a perfect hunter or shot? No, We just all take the time to practice and get better at our art.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Boiler room, neck... that's another debate

But how an you be sure that you will hit double lung and heart? I can hit a deer with a 17 HMR in the heart and double lung. It won't go down. Not enough shock value.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

The minimum for deer is .243 here, so you are right. The right caliber, cannot be assumed. Assuming anything makes an.... you know. Lets go the other way, how about a .338? Or a 444 marlin? Still legal, but a little over kill if you ask me.

All I'm trying to say is to know where the shot goes you need to practice more than a few shots before hunting. The take 6 shots and get it in a 8 inch group? Not good!! You need to study to know the caliber is correct. Every manufacturer has ballistic tables. Study them.

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We have minimum specs here in Ontario as well and they are adequate.

All your deer and your entire families deer dropped within 20 yards? - sorry have to call BS on that. If you claim that every shot is going to be perfect and every deer drops on the spot you are not being straight with us. I don't know where this utopia exist but not with my gang anyway. And yes I spend all kinds of time at the range and sure it helps me but I am not that great of a shot to begin with IMO.

These are not armoured warriors. They are deer. You just need to hit heart and or lungs and they will drop. That is humane and you have done your job - IMO. You don't need a 300 win mag to do it either.

You shoot 200 rounds with every gun before going in the field? Great! Good practice makes a good shot and I applaud that. Lots of folks don't need that amount of practice to be proficient. So lets not knock folks that are able.

In our gang, you are told to you must take your gun and go through sight in procedure before coming for deer season. If you don't, then don't come. Pretty simple rule but has served us well.

I know a fellow who shoots all of probably 10 shots a year and takes more game than the other 8 guys he hunts with. I had the opportunity to hunt with him once and saw him take a deer running at just over 200 yards free hand. We found the deer over 100 yards from that point. One lung and heart gone but it still ran that far.

My point to all this is you don't need to send a million rounds down range and be a perfect shot to humanely and ethically take deer. They are wild creatures and a slight movement or your adrenaline can easily cause your perfect shot to run afoul.

Again only my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Boiler room, neck... that's another debate

But how an you be sure that you will hit double lung and heart? I can hit a deer with a 17 HMR in the heart and double lung. It won't go down. Not enough shock value.

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If you put a .17hmr through a deers heart and double lung, it will go down. Has nothing to do with shock. Even an arrow which has very little energy will put a deer down. You are aware that there are a whole lot of bow hunters killing a whole lot of deer every year with very little 'energy' delivered by their arrows.

The problem with using a .17hmr on deer is that it will likely not penetrate far enough to get to the heart or to get both lungs. It has nothing to do with energy - it has all to do with penetration.

The stuff you are posting in this thread is as laughable as your "shooting dimes @1000 yards" statement.