Scarcity of Deer ???

Attachment 34254Our deer are sleeping good tonight!!! Snared 7 wolves so far off just 2 pieces of private land.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Since we pay in advance for tags....the gov't really isn't out anything when hunters don't fill the tags...just saying :)



With fewer hunters and low 'success' rates (I think I read 30%) it does make one wonder if the MNR turns a blind eye towards predator control as they still need a method of control to keep deer numbers down. Those MWU's with extra tags are areas where they need to cull a greater number of deer and if hunters can't do it...then they have to rely on nature.

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I completely agree! I am one of those who wonder....

On another note, while deer numbers were soaring a few years back, the coyote population was in-check with Mange.

When I was a kid (30 years ago) and hunted 30% more than I do now, I recall rarely seen coyotes or tracks back then. Tons of snowshoes, and Jacks. Now in the same areas all I see is predators and evidence of their kills. I've hunted this area for years and every year I see more yotes.

Twelve years ago I've semi retired my hare hunting gear and purchased a very good varmint rifle.
I hunt them every chance I get. And I am successful in taking a few, but my son and I are only the few that keep the predator population in check.

More coyote hunters are needed.

The math is simple, less coyotes equals more game.

If that female yote was taken out the year before, that would be 11 fawns growing to be mature doe/bucks. Some of those fawns were does and could of produced more deer.

Now her pups will grow and take more deer/hares and other animals.

Instead of talking about cutting back the gun season for deer, let's do our part in limiting the amount of predators.

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Originally Posted by chris lavoie

Attachment 34254Our deer are sleeping good tonight!!! Snared 7 so far off just 2 pieces of private land.

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Way to Go!

Thank You for contributing your efforts in deer management!

I hope they keep "taking a blind eye" to Coyote management. Southern Ontario farmers love us. Now,if we could just get the MNRF off this Algonquin Wolf bullshyte and reverse their banned hunting and trapping zone restrictions,we'd really be doing something about predator control.

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

For decades the mnr (including Bain) managed deer yards for wintering deer. They snowshoed, snowmobiled and during periods of heavy snow depths, bulldozed trails to make it easier for deer to travel and access for the purposes of the winter deer feeding program. Workers went in and cut trees to allow access to browse. In summer they went in and clear cut areas so new growth would generate providing browse for the deer.

These activities have stopped. The deer yards now grow naturally and I think are maturing to the point where they are very limiting in the amount of feed available to the large influx of deer that migrate into them because there is limited new undergrowth in mature forests. Add to that the practise of selective logging and quickly putting out forest fires and the forest is possibly overmaturing meaning less new growth for deer browse.

This all helps lead to the limiting of deer populations during periods of extreme winter conditions in my opinion. Along with the affect of predators, dogs at large, hunting, disease, loss of habitat due to human encroachment and road kill.....it's a tough life for the critters .today

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This post does make a lot of sense but it only helps to explain the decline in deer that use big traditional yarding areas. What's happening to the rest of the population?

I'm convinced that my little corner of the province is currently experiencing the perfect blend of already reduced numbers from two or three years too many of additional tags, too many coyotes and just enough snow, freezing rain and crust during the winter to make life difficult for deer and easier for coyotes.

On the bright side, the coyote hunting should be great this winter.

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Originally Posted by GW11

I'm convinced that my little corner of the province is currently experiencing the perfect blend of already reduced numbers from two or three years too many of additional tags, too many coyotes and just enough snow, freezing rain and crust during the winter to make life difficult for deer and easier for coyotes.

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I'm also convinced, the same is true in my little corner (Eastern Ont).

What is interesting is that when I sat and talked with guys from two different local camps this past season, these are 'brown are down" type camps that are looking to put deer on the pole, so they're not passing on any. But they all insist that they are not seeing deer in any great numbers. However, their camps success rates were in 35-40% range. These guys just don't seem to have adjusted their expectations of hunting since the years when we were grossly overrun with deer and the MNR had to cull them with consecutive years of 5-6 additional tags.

In my own camp, it was the same again this year, most of them weren't seeing deer....BUT what is perplexing is that I hunt in the same bush as them and I saw deer ever time I was out. My trail cams are full of pics of deer...the one below is a daytime pic with 4 deer in a single shot. I shot 3 deer this year and saw a whack more in the same bush that 5 other guys didn't shoot anything.

Scarcity of deer (in my area).....hardly...maybe to high expectations ???

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...psgxj66jtl.jpg

I might add...lots of yotes, but there has always been lots of yotes. My neighbour and I raised sheep here for 20 yrs...yotes have always been around. The numbers never seem to fluctuate much. They don't seem to affect the deer population overall, still lots of deer around. We had yotes here thru those years when the MNR were providing 5-6 additional tags. They had little affect on the overall population.

Had coyotes take down a small buck right in my yard a few years back....it ran to my barn for safety with 1/2 it's back side chewed off. I had to put it down.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...6/DSCF0023.jpg

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I might add...lots of yotes, but there has always been lots of yotes. My neighbour and I raised sheep here for 20 yrs...yotes have always been around. The numbers never seem to fluctuate much. They don't seem to affect the deer population overall, still lots of deer around. We had yotes here thru those years when the MNR were providing 5-6 additional tags. They had little affect on the overall population.

Had coytes take down a small buck right in my yard a few years back....it ran to my barn for safety with 1/2 it's back side chewed off. I had to put it down.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...6/DSCF0023.jpg

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It was an absolute rarity to see a coyote around here in the early 2000's. They've been steadily on the increase from then until now and deer have been on a steady decrease. Our deer numbers aren't what yours are in the East. My guess is they've bottomed out here and coyotes have about peaked. We should start to see that turn around now I hope.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I'm also convinced, the same is true in my little corner (Eastern Ont).

What is interesting is that when I sat and talked with guys from two different local camps this past season, these are 'brown are down" type camps that are looking to put deer on the pole, so they're not passing on any. But they all insist that they are not seeing deer in any great numbers. However, their camps success rates were in 35-40% range. These guys just don't seem to have adjusted their expectations of hunting since the years when we were grossly overrun with deer and the MNR had to cull them with consecutive years of 5-6 additional tags.

In my own camp, it was the same again this year, most of them weren't seeing deer....BUT what is perplexing is that I hunt in the same bush as them and I saw deer ever time I was out. My trail cams are full of pics of deer...the one below is a daytime pic with 4 deer in a single shot. I shot 3 deer this year and saw a whack more in the same bush that 5 other guys didn't shoot anything.

Scarcity of deer (in my area).....hardly...maybe to high expectations ???

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...psgxj66jtl.jpg

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Mike - are the other guys hunting over bait? That's one thing I've noticed with bait and trail cams. When you put out bait, you concentrate the deer in a small area - you'll see a lot of deer on your cameras, but if you go a couple of lots over, there are no deer/tracks at all.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

When you put out bait, you concentrate the deer in a small area - you'll see a lot of deer on your cameras, but if you go a couple of lots over, there are no deer/tracks at all.

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I have cameras that cover front to back on my 100 acres plus 2 cameras on joining properties (300+ acres) that we hunt. I only put bait down at 3 of them to capture who's who and pattern their travel. It's not uncommon to see the same deer at all 5 locations (over 1.5 miles coverage). Some set ups capture unique deer to the area along the river and some are unique on transition trails a mile away by the cash crop fields.

So the bait is really inconsequential, in that it's primarily just to get them to stop at a specific spot. The cams are set up at locations on transition trails from the river/bedding/corn&soya fields. As a camp we push/dog that entire area so the same deer I am capturing on the cams are the same deer that will be moved thru the entire area.

Two of the deer I shot this year at camp were at spots far from the trail cams, but one of the deer was a frequent visitor at one about 1/2 mile away. The 2nd one (one horn) was never captured on any of the cams in the area.

Why the guys don't see them, I don't know. It could be that they, like most guys at hunt camps do little to mask their scent or play the wind. Most of them don't sit for very long, in the stand at 3:30 and out at dark (5:00-5:15 ?) is common. Most sit in stands on fields that don't have deer come till last light, so if they get busted going in, there is no time to recover.

Lots of variables, but I KNOW the deer are there and most of WMU 66a has the same kind of Deer friendly habitat.