Comparing Canada geese ( and Canada goose hunting
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Comparing Canada geese ( and Canada goose hunting
Hello Honker 220,
If you are questioning me about comparing the two species of waterfowl then "yes" I am comparing them because back then there were individuals who stated that the Canada Goose was "endangered", "protected" and our "national bird" none of which were true.
Jerome Katchin, D.V.M.
I actually meant to delete as I wasn't going to reply, I had said what I had to say, but my computer kept freezing and I hit submit by mistake, sorry for that. However since you were so interested in replying. There are many people to this day who think those things about geese. Where we are in Ontario with goose hunting and goose seasons is more than just the CWS and MNR decided to give us a season it is much more complicated than that., but I am not going to discuss. Most people who don't hunt aren't informed but generally don't have a negative opinion of hunting. I work with many such individuals. We don't have a right to hunt, it is something we are allowed to do by legislation. I hunt several locations where people have no problem with me shooting the geese but do not allow me to shoot the ducks. I am fine with that it is their choice, I don't question it. These same land owners would probably not be impressed if people wanted to shoot swans if it was legal. I don't think everything needs to be shot, because we can if its sustainable. We really have to question ourselves if that is the case. To win a battle (ie we get a swan hunt) we may loose much more in the long run, that being the general non-hunting publics view of hunting. I have a bucket list I would like to do some day with regards to waterfowl hunting, so do some of the people I occasionally hunt with, on no one's list is a swan hunt. So I only originally posted because I have viewed this on going swan debate for awhile. The identification thing under hunting conditions of tundra and trumpeter swans is not possible, you know this too. We have a breeding program in this province of people dedicated to bringing back the trumpeter swan, that should be respected. Many more people view the tundra swan migration in the spring in Aylmer to the point I am amazed by the numbers that come from all over year after year. So what would be gained by some people getting a tag to shoot one swan? Not much in the bigger picture. Also you have contacted many people in your quest to get a swan hunt. You must by now know their personal opinion, you do not state them. Is it because it is not positive? I don't expect you to change your view, people with an agenda usually don't but I think it will do more harm with the regards to the publics view of waterfowl hunting in Ontario than good. I hope I haven't offended you or for that any of my fellow waterfowl hunters who support your view but I haven't heard anything to really state why we must hunt them again because it would not benefit hunting in the long run in Ontario.
I don't expect you to change your view, people with an agenda usually don't but I think it will do more to harm the publics view of waterfowl hunting in ontario
, but I am not going to discuss. Most people who don't hunt aren't informed but generally don't have a negative opinion of hunting. I work with many such individuals. We don't have a right to hunt, it is something we are allowed to do by legislation. I hunt several locations where people have no problem with me shooting the geese but do not allow me to shoot the ducks. I am fine with that it is their choice, I don't question it. These same land owners
[QUOTE=honker220;1037743]I actually meant to delete as I wasn't going to reply, I had said what I had to say, but my computer kept freezing and I hit submit by mistake, sorry for that. However since you were so interested in replying. There are many people to this day who think those things about geese. Where we are in Ontario with goose hunting and goose seasons is more than just the CWS and MNR decided to give us a season it is much more complicated than that., but I am not going to discuss. Most people who don't hunt aren't informed but generally don't have a negative opinion of hunting. I work with many such individuals. We don't have a right to hunt, it is something we are allowed to do by legislation. I hunt several locations where people have no problem with me shooting the geese but do not allow me to shoot the ducks. I am fine with that it is their choice, I don't question it. These same land owners would probably not be impressed if people wanted to shoot swans if it was legal. I don't think everything needs to be shot, because we can if its sustainable. We really have to question ourselves if that is the case. To win a battle (ie we get a swan hunt) we may loose much more in the long run, that being the general non-hunting publics view of hunting. I have a bucket list I would like to do some day with regards to waterfowl hunting, so do some of the people I occasionally hunt with, on no one's list is a swan hunt. So I only originally posted because I have viewed this on going swan debate for awhile. The identification thing under hunting conditions of tundra and trumpeter swans is not possible, you know this too. We have a breeding program in this province of people dedicated to bringing back the trumpeter swan, that should be respected. Many more people view the tundra swan migration in the spring in Aylmer to the point I am amazed by the numbers that come from all over year after year. So what would be gained by some people getting a tag to shoot one swan? Not much in the bigger picture. Also you have contacted many people in your quest to get a swan hunt. You must by now know their personal opinion, you do not state them. Is it because it is not positive? I don't expect you to change your view, people with an agenda usually don't but I think it will do more harm with the regards to the publics view of waterfowl hunting in Ontario than good. I hope I haven't offended you or for that any of my fellow waterfowl hunters who support your view but I haven't heard anything to really state why we must hunt them again because it would not benefit hunting in the long run in Ontario
A very well thought out and written post, :goodstuff::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: it express's the feelings of many people including "hunters " that I have spoken with.
We are not dealing with chickens, but with birds that people call "beautiful, majestic " and just love to watch them and take pictures. A lot of these people drive many miles to enjoy seeing these birds.
Here is an interesting article from a while back by Harold Duebbert, waterfowl biologist, on his swan hunt in North DAttachment 35871Attachment 35872akota.
Hello Guys,
I have two (2) comments:
1) Honker 220:
I respect your opinion and your right to express it in the manner that you have done so. I have prepared a letter, a new revised Tundra Swan Fact Sheet and a response to several comments that have been posted on this thread. I hope to be able to post them on a new thread on Thanksgiving while I am at my brother's place since I can transfer my work onto his computer and then post them on this forum.
2) Grouse Guy:
That was a great article that you posted ... thank you. The Eastern Population of Tundra Swans was 100,000 in 2010 (25% over the management goal of 80,000) when I submitted my proposal in October of 2010. The Western Population of Tundra Swans was 80,000 in 2010 (33% over the management goal of 60,000). Although the Eastern Population of Tundra Swans continues to increase slowly the Western Population of Tundra Swans is now over 100,000 (66% over the management goal of 60,000).
Jerome Katchin, D.V.M.
PS Please see my next post regarding the Trumpeter Swan population.
Hello Guys,
I have prepared a Trumpeter Swan Fact Sheet that I will try to post on a new separate thread next week. However here is the part regarding the 2015 survey.
The results of the rangewide (Continental Population) survey of Trumpeter Swans for 2015 are 63,016 "white swans" not including their cygnets. There are however three (3) sub-populations of Trumpeter Swans:
1) Pacific Coast Population at 24,240 " white swans".
2) Rocky Mountain Population at 11,721 "white swans".
3) Interior Population at 27,055 "white swans".
The Interior Population includes the birds in the Province of Ontario.
Jerome Katchin, D.V.M.
Thanks for that info Jerome ... the numbers of Trumpeter swans you give are higher than I thought and good to see they made that good a comeback. In the Quinte area (where I am located on the waterfront, and do most of my fall hunting) I have seen hundreds of Tundra swans each of the last three falls, many more than before 5 years ago ... last year I did identify a pair of what I expect were Trumpeters, the first I remember seeing in this area. And of course, the mute swan number here seem to be increasing exponentially, but they are here all year round, breed here and are very aggressive and protective of young, so they will continue to increase I expect ... the Tundra swans I only see here for a short time during migration.
Regardless of a number of the comments here, I support the Tundra swan limited tag season, and I support the delisting of the mute swan if that ever comes to the table. The Tundra tags are being issued anyway, just to Americans, I think we should claim our portion of the tags in North America.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadwall
It should be noted for trumpeter swan fact sheets, though Jerome's population numbers are accurate, he fails to mention one interesting fact that should be included. Ontario's re-introduced population of trumpeter swans is approximately only 1000 birds. Their populations is not growing rapidly it has slowed. It has not expanded into all of its former past range in Ontario. Their main current source of death is lead poisoning (from shot). Also due to the way the were re- introduced they are for the most part non- migratory which means the birds that would accidently be killed during a limited tag season on tundra swans in Ontario would be our population not the greater interior population. Do most of the waterfowlers on this site realize this? Many of the US states that have trumpeter swan populations that number in the thousands, big difference than ours. Another interesting fact is that of the marked birds that have crossed into the United States, half of them are never seen again. Since I do not know why they are not seen again I will not state something miss leading. So how many out of this small population would be ok to be accidently killed each year? Do you think the general public would be ok with birds be killed out of a small population of trumpeters in Ontario? Since most people including hunters do not know this fact. Having a tundra swan season in Ontario is very complicated. Why not put the resources you have to build a trumpeter swan population in Ontario to a point where it would be very less relevant if they accidently got shot it would not factor much into anything. That's something hunters could be proud of before they ever get a tundra swan season.