Teachers Unions are at it again

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Originally Posted by fratri

I seriously doubt that this will help.... Can barely get by now with all of today's costs, I can't imagine it being easier without union wages or benefits in today's Canada.

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That is a broad generalization. I know lots of trades people that saw their disposable income decreased after becoming unionized. Additional deductions on pay cheques to pay for union reps, and business administrators, & bureaucrats, and time off (not working) between large union projects and while on strike. I was in IBEW Local 105 for 12 years and at best they acted like clowns. Union meetings were piss ups and the old boys (stuck in the good old days) would rather work 6 months a year and sit on their the rest of the year. I was in a small company that used all IBEW propaganda for fire starter. I never spent a day on the picket line and we went through 2 strikes - I left the tools and got into electrical sales shortly afterwards.

I do not think there is any real reason to have a union if you work in an office or a public servant - there are checks and balances in place for that. Listen to the teachers union moan and whine.......have they ever had a provincial government that they got along with? NO

You seem to think only Union people make good income.
And please remember it is the public who is paying you, not the government. SO when you ask for an increase you are asking if I mind taxes going up.

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Originally Posted by fratri

I seriously doubt that this will help.... Can barely get by now with all of today's costs, I can't imagine it being easier without union wages or benefits in today's Canada.

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Maybe voters should decide how much all public servants earn.
No need for unions pissing and moaning..

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Maybe voters should decide how much all public servants earn.
No need for unions pissing and moaning..

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Close imo.
But not as a result of what the public thinks they are worth. But rather what the tax paying public can afford. Ask millionaires in the US where they fall, and many will say/think middle class. Same here.

what they can afford, relative to incomes/taxes. Aka what the masses can afford. Where can a person begin?

Median incomes. As is, the median duo is around 85k.Dead horse, that’s been beaten, flogged, tarred and feathered.

4100, some of the unions got along quite well with McGuinty. That is, until private got kicked in the groin, (like today), and an extremely left wing economist kicked the lid off the can the the love stopped...

It’s unconscionable that Unions are bellyaching today. Are they incapable of looking around? Remembering peons and Energy poverty, or so many other things that could be mentioned like not having $ for PSWs, LTCs, and so very very much more.

Nope, they are the most important people in the world. And there are airwaves to spend on, an election around the corner.

I believe the proposed number is 800 million. Which is what 1% of the ministries budget?

I wonder how many PSWs, COs, that might hire. Or given the absurd amount of debt we are now in....which was already brutal and a fiscal nightmare

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Originally Posted by fratri

I seriously doubt that this will help.... Can barely get by now with all of today's costs, I can't imagine it being easier without union wages or benefits in today's Canada.

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This is non-union and a construction situation. At the current sqft rates for finishing drywall, piece work when broken down to an hourly wage, if you are good you can average $90/hr. That is not supplying materials that is labor only. One still needs to pay taxes, CPP and EI out of that and there is no pension. Taking out taxes, CPP, EI (30-35%) and $5/hr for pension it works out to about $53 to $58/hr take home. These are rural Southern Ontario rates, not sure what they are in the big cities.

All my other buddies in trades that run their own businesses or do piece work make more than they would in a union setting. They are all hard workers and none of them would survive in a union setting because it is in the unions interest to drag the job out so everyone stays employed as long as possible. In the private piece work setting, the harder you work, the faster the job gets done, the more you make. There is more money in the private sector than a union setting but you have to be willing to work.

Unions prop up the lazy worker, drag down the productive worker and in the end reduce productivity. There is no incentive to do better in a union setting and that ultimately hinders the operation of the free market.

So even though the union wage is less than the piece work wage the union wage is still considered inflated when you account for the reduced productivity. The piece worker makes more per hour but completes the job in less time which will ultimately make him the more cost effective choice. These artificially inflated wages and reduced productivity from the unions result in higher cost of goods and services for everyone, union and non-union alike. So if you think things are too expensive, start looking at unions.

I used to get rained on pretty bad for saying this when I went to work in the private sector auto industry,but,if companies and corporations treated their employees with honor,fairness and dignity,there wouldn't be a need for unions.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I used to get rained on pretty bad for saying this when I went to work in the private sector auto industry,but,if companies and corporations treated their employees with honor,fairness and dignity,there wouldn't be a need for unions.

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Agree 100%

Years ago, our company was ahead of its time. We could dress casually, unless meeting clients. No such thing as sick days, or watching the clock, late one day? No problem. Busy the next? You leave when your done...no such thing as OT either. or performance reviews. In 20 years I didn’t have one review. Vacation days weren’t tracked, nor squabbled over. Nor given to those based on seniority. your adults, work it out fairly.

Get a call for a sick kid or any kind of life hiccups. No problem, take the day or as much time as you need. Work from home when needed or wanted. What mattered was the bottom line and doing our jobs. Virtually no one abused it. That was before 2000.

When 2008 hit, all of us above certain base salaries gave up huge chunks of our bonuses. None more so than the execs. No one was laid off, especially those that could least afford it.

Times have been changing, a lot of companies, now have day care, some or all the above, and more. Think Virgin where he says, take care of your people and they will take care of business.

To say, companies treat their people poorly, was true. Far less so these days.

I spent a year with OPSEU. It was horrible, people treated like babies, and worse. And worst off those higher up the food chain, threw those lower down under the bus. All the time. Table scraps

Myself personally, I have never had a company treat me poorly, One job as a kid I quit, even Lobster fishing when I was 19 the Captain made me take time off to go home for Christmas with pay. All my jobs in computers I worked for good companies and had a great working relationship where I was trusted and could do what I wanted.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I used to get rained on pretty bad for saying this when I went to work in the private sector auto industry,but,if companies and corporations treated their employees with honor, fairness and dignity, there wouldn't be a need for unions.

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I agree but without unions this would probably be even worse...