8 mth Lab growling

Actually the 'Old School Mentality' has changed immensely in this particular sport .We have come light years in training techniques and sequencing particular sub skills. Results are readily apparent, learning more effective and since now this stuff is in printed and video form(something we never had), it's available to people in general. The old way would have been transferred by word of mouth or mentoring.
Rex Carr is responsible for the change and implementation of the e collar which has changed training .

By the way I don't think field trial trainers are 'gods' at all. They however, have been walking the walk and have an experiental base that is fairly broad in nature. Try training a 7 week old puppy for 8-10 yrs, competing and hunting over them only to start over once again will yield that kind of experience which is real and tangible.

Last5oh_302 if you think jakezilla's methods are "old school" you have no idea what real old school was like. If you haven't seen it in action or seen the finished product who are you to judge?

Here come the boys.

Yeah trky you're right. I just don't get it.

I've received several pm's because of this thread, and all in relation to old school dominance, and how they're tired of seeing people using it or pumping it as the end all be all way to "be on top" with your dog. That says something doesn't it? I mean there are people that disagree with with your alpha roll theories and are willing to learn, and realize that "yeah, this dominance crap is just that, crap" at least, but perhaps aren't comfortable enough to come on here to challenge the big bad expert field trainers.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I agree, it is basic, and just because you're set in your old ways, and Caesar Milan is your hero, and field trial trainers like you are training GODS, it still doesn't mean you're doing it the best way. Things change but it's always tough to change the old school mentality.

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I am not the be all end of of dog trainers and I do not know everything but the majority of problems on this site are pretty easy fixes.

The more experienced trainers and dog people on here aren't here to learn how to train dogs. We are here to help and pass on some hard won knowledge, some of them are just a little more PC at it than myself.

For people that know what they are doing there is an incredible amount of BS on the internet about dog training. I am just trying to help people stay on the right path with their bird dogs.

If the OP doesn't get a handle on things he could very well find himself in a KennyT situation with an out of control dog. If KennyT is reading this I hope he doesn't take it the wrong way but everything I read tells me that there is nothing wrong with that dog and it is an owner/handler issue. I have experience with DD's and I think KennyT just got in over his head and if I wasn't on the other side of the planet right now I would go to his place and take a stab at helping him out with this dog.

If you think my way is wrong give a counter method written from you own experiences instead of a 2 sentence answer telling me how your buddy does it or something you googled.

Hang on Jake, you told me I don't get. What could I possibly prove to you then?

I already explained to you what works, and I haven't used internet articles or whatever you claim I have to back it up.

You then stated that you "might" try this, and maybe try that. You really have no idea. You took a stab at it, so why don't you prove it then?

I've personally never had to deal with a food aggressive dog, and obviously you haven't either, judging by your answer of what you'd "probably" do.

Rick,
To be clear, not everyone believes in the dominance/roll'em theory. Some of us I believe are way beyond that in training strategies and the way I trained in the 70's is not the way I train today.

I really take exception to you referencing field trainers the way you do. You may disagree...that's fine...but then state your position and then back it up with your background/knowledge/experience.......something......you can't just make statements and expect no one to question you. For sure there are a number of trainers here that I don't always agree with but I know from their comments that they indeed have experience.

I won't be sarcastic or disrespecting but I will challenge when I see a shallowness or lacking in substance type comments when there are other reasonable alternatives being suggested by others.....you like chocolate....I like vanilla...but I've got a lot of years of vanilla so you better substantiate your responses.

Perhaps you are very effective....I don't know that...certainly not from your posts or sarcasm.

The mights, try's and probably's are butt covering measures because I am trying to explain something over the internet that really needs to happen in person. If I was there, I would work through those suggestions while reading the dog and adjust accordingly with an extremely high probability of success. This is an impressionable 8 month old puppy not some abused rescue that wants to eat me. This is well within my skill set and many other experienced people on this site.