Ontario’s sweeping Moose Project proposal leaves hunters reeling. Have your say now.

Ontario is already behind the curve for ATV access. Many Western states/provinces have limited access to certain areas for ATVs.

It's not rocket science. If you greatly increase the ability of a hunter to cover ground, chances are they will shoot more moose.

Rather than covering a few kilometers per day by foot, hunters on an ATV can cover dozens or hundreds. Combined with more road/trail access, this undeniably results in hunters being able to cover a larger area and increases pressure on the moose population.

I'm not saying ATV's should be banned or excessively limited. But it should at least be examined as a contributing factor to Ontario's moose problem.

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Originally Posted by buckchaser

Ontario is already behind the curve for ATV access. Many Western states/provinces have limited access to certain areas for ATVs.

It's not rocket science. If you greatly increase the ability of a hunter to cover ground, chances are they will shoot more moose.

Rather than covering a few kilometers per day by foot, hunters on an ATV can cover dozens or hundreds. Combined with more road/trail access, this undeniably results in hunters being able to cover a larger area and increases pressure on the moose population.

I'm not saying ATV's should be banned or excessively limited. But it should at least be examined as a contributing factor to Ontario's moose problem.

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Ya'know this access thing is going to hurt me big time.
I hunt within 1/2 kilometer of hwy 11.
All the other hunters think the grass is greener the deeper they go - and I'm all for it! Go deep and keep goin! If access is denied then these guys might figure out what I'm doin and that would be a bad thing!


:-)

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Originally Posted by trappermatt

yep while we are at it lets take the motors off the boats and canoes, take the scopes off the rifles , take away crossbows and compounds and go to only stick and string , heck why not gps and radios as well , afterall everyone of these things help people take more game , or maybe we could see our MNR actually find the real root of the problem and work to fix it

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Don't give those Liberal idiots any more dumb ideas. They can come up with enough of their own. LOL

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Don't give those Liberal idiots any more dumb ideas. They can come up with enough of their own. LOL

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Originally Posted by trappermatt

yep while we are at it lets take the motors off the boats and canoes, take the scopes off the rifles , take away crossbows and compounds and go to only stick and string , heck why not gps and radios as well , afterall everyone of these things help people take more game , or maybe we could see our MNR actually find the real root of the problem and work to fix it

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You missed one DRONES

I'm just catching up on this thread and doing a lot of skimming, so apologies if I'm bringing back any issues that have already been discussed.

First off, I'm not big on the shortened calf season, I would rather a more limited calf tag allocation. As some have said already, the important thing with calf tags I think is to allow cow hunters to humanely harvest the calves of the cows they kill, rather than letting them starve and go to waste. So at minimum I think any group that is allocated a cow tag (if we're not suspending cow tags altogether) should get one or two calf tags to go with it, to be used at any time in the season.

The big unknown for me is, under what circumstances does most of the calf harvest occur? Is it (a) successful cow hunters taking their catch's offspring, as I just described? Is it (b) large groups with one or two adult tags, filling many of their calf tags while they're in the bush? Or is it (c) individuals and small groups who don't get an adult tag, going on a calf hunt?

If it's (a), then there's not much to be gained by reducing the calf harvest, since the orphaned calves will probably die anyway. If it's (b), then limit each group's calf tags to one or two per cow tag... but continue issuing a calf tag to small groups that don't get an adult tag, because I like the idea that you can still go hunting if you don't win the draw. If it's (c), then ONLY give calf tags to cow tag winners; the "everyone can go hunting" principle will have to be sacrificed for conservation.

Secondly, the other thing I don't know is, what is the purpose of the delayed season start? Is it to give bulls a chance to impregnate some cows before getting shot? If that's the intent (and if it really works that way), I can support it. If it's to reduce harvest by giving hunters a disadvantage, then I don't support it, I would rather they just cut back on tags. I would rather get tags less often, and go on fewer moose hunts, but have a higher chance of success when I do - or need a bigger group, and have to share the meat more ways - than get more tags but never manage to fill them.

Couldn't agree more Buckchaser! I'm OK with a guy driving his ATV into the area he's going to hunt and using it to drag the animal out of the bush. What I'm against is hunting off of the ATV as you drive along. I know the gun isn't loaded but it doesn't take long to step off load and shoot. I realize it creates an enforcement nightmare.

I think some areas shouldn't be accessible to ATV's at all. Some areas should be left undisturbed. If hunters choose to walk these areas that's up to them and I am of the age where I'm limiting my success.

It's hard to close the barn door now that the horse (ATV) is out but limits should have been set years ago. The ATV industry and recreational lobby is very strong and it's not likely much is going to change.

I remember when winter ice fishing wasn't allowed prior to the invention of the snowmobile. The snowmobile industry lobbied the govt and winter ice fishing for trout was initiated. End of the trout fishing in many non-stocked lakes.

Common sense would be to decrease cow and calf harvest based on WMU population as already mentioned, maybe split up some of the bigger WMU'S to a more manageable size. I like tweedwolfscreams idea of issuing a calf tag per group (calf tag per 3 - 10 hunters depending on population and goals). Should still keep the majority of hunters buying moose tags and decrease the harvest of calves.
The idea of only 2 weeks to shoot a calf. Too many groups with adult tags will pick these 2 weeks to increase their odds + all of the other groups that didn't get an adult tag = too many hunters = hunter frustration and safety issues.

Lets face it, the OMNRF has been tasked to put an action plan together to reverse the decline in moose numbers without negatively impacting revenue generation. In today's economic times no Ministry is going to be successful in proposing solutions that are going to negatively impact jobs / revenue in any area of the economy.
Stop the hunt all together - no hunters buying tags, gas, food lodging, northern outfitters struggle to make a living - not going to happen. Ban ATV's altogether - not going to happen - negative financial hit on our economy. They have to come up with a balanced approach (tag allocation) which continues to engage us hunters in the activity of moose hunting so that we will continue to buy licences thus generate $$$ in addition to increasing the moose population to more sustainable levels.

They also have to come up with an action plan to address many of the other factors that are impacting our moose herd (list already provided in the past 11 pages).
Access is a huge factor. Fresh timber cut in the area my group bow hunts 4 years ago - 8 moose taken off the one cut during rifle. Fresh cut last year maybe 10 km away, locals advised 6 moose already harvested before we got up there 2nd week of archery. (They weren't archery kills either). That is a lot of moose out of one small area of the WMU.

A lot of great ideas put forth so far in this post, the magic formula is there, But as said already the OMNRF has their solution in play just going through the bureaucratic motions.

Don't blame the players, blame the game. (government $$)
"E"

Trying to close out ATV's would be tough in todays world.

Limiting tags or eliminating calf/cow tags is the only way to go.

Then who cares where guys go on ATV's.. let them drive all over hells half acres. Use gas! Enjoy the north! see endless country! support the northern economy! Have a holiday!

Ultimately you will need a tag to get something.

It's easier for the MNR to issue illegal hunting fines - (which should be raised to a small mortgage) then it is to chase guys around on ATV's.

One thing about killing a moose - it needs to be brought back to camp, transported home, and put in a freezer.

And it's common nature for guys to yack!

Also we all as hunters need to help the MNR by turning these guys in!

we need to understand that they're stealing from us! not from the gov't etc.

WE ALL NEED TO ENFORCE THE LAWS.

I'm not a squealer or a rat and never have been but IF I'm be screwed because of those other guys then I'm going to be part of the solution!

Baby steps should be taken first before completely rearranging everything to something new and untested.

1) Reduce Non-Resident Moose tags
2) Open and Lengthen the Spring Bear hunt for Residents AND Non-Residents province wide
3) Remove the Wolf and Coyote tag system for Residents
4) Increase the cost for a Non-Resident Moose tag
5) Reduce the cost for a Non-Resident Wolf tag
6) Continue the FN hunts but crack down on the sale of meat
7) Make Harvest Reporting Mandatory for Big Game

Reducing (or eliminating) the calf season might be a good idea but I'm torn whether or not it's actually necessary and what the harvest % is considering there is NO MANDATORY HARVEST DATA COLLECTED BY THE OMNR SO THEY'RE BASING THE CHANGE BASED OFF EXTRAPOLATED DATA AND NOT FACTS.