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The high deer numbers that people talk about is based on numbers higher than carrying capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
All of the hunters talking about too few deer should chat with some farmers who lost high percentages of crops to deer and to the people who hit them on Ontario roads.
We are probably pretty close to the proper deer numbers now in a lot of Ontario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
At least in our area the allocation of additional seals has been curtailed for years (since about 2009).Quote:
This target comes from the province’s Cervid Ecological Framework;
When deer populations were at their peak in eastern Ontario, deer densities got as high as 12 to 14 deer/km2 in suitable habitat. The 2009 data shows that deer densities have declined to an average of 2.5 deer/km2 in the WMU’s in eastern Ontario. Our target population is from 5 to 8 deer/km2.
Only recently have the 'antlerless' draws increased to 50% success rates. It would seem the MNR feels we are closer to the correct density in Eastern Ont.
The MNR biologists say 5-8 deer to a km2 or about 150 acres is desired. So in an ideal scenario, a hunt camp with 100 acres, it will have 5-6 deer.... and you only have Buck tags, you only have 2-3 deer (50/50 mix) to hunt. If your camp has 10 guys....not everyone will fill their tags that year.
Guys might complain that deer are scarce..but reality is, they are at the desired density. Back when Deer were 14/km2 and almost every one had a doe tag...all 14 guys could and in most cases did, fill their tags....BUT it was not a desired density and a cull was conducted. Now they complain that there are no deer...
15 years since the start of the really high numbers and about 10 since they were destroyed, that makes the majority of guys in their 20s starting out with too high or deer numbers, the bar was set way too high for them out of the gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I think we need to get more people into waterfowl hunting, every field should be taking out geese, there is a lot of action in that type of hunting, makes a quiet day in the deer blind welcome.
Would 3 deer hit on our local roads since last Oct , in your mind be considered a lot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Those 3 deer are what the police and roads dept crews around here report.
So we either have a scarcity of deer in our area, confirmed by the local C.O. [very few sightings and road kills], or we have a lot of guys driving around and pouncing on all these road killed deer.
Definitely agree with you guys in that deer numbers are probably back to more normal numbers in much of the province. Yes, a good number of hunters out there now started during the "good old days" and can't accept the idea of one tag/one deer each. My own group has a couple of guys who started late, around 2000 when they were both 25, and they are absolutely flabbergasted at the current situation. They were spoiled from the start.
I believe there are some trouble spots though. Areas where numbers have dipped far below "normal", and I would say that the Peterborough area is definitely one of them. When a retired guy (my Dad) can spend the last couple of seasons in tree stands on multiple properties in multiple WMU'S, archery season included, and not even see a deer, there's a problem. We don't even see deer in the fields while driving the roads during prime time any more. This covers an area from Cavan/Millbrook over to Keene/Otonabee, up to Stoney Lake and back over to Selwyn/Buckhorn.
Over the past couple of years, people are beginning to complain on an almost monthly basis (letters in the paper, news stories, etc.) about coyotes living on golf courses, bike trails and small patches of green space within city limits. Yes, sometimes people need to realize that if they want their yard to back onto green space you have to accept what goes along with it, but this is a relatively new phenomenon here. Why? Because food is getting scarce outside the city and coyotes will hang around the easier pickings like domestic pets.
Where are you located?Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
There is still around 8000 vehicle-deer collisions in Ontario every year, those are the ones that are reported.
There are not as many but that is because the deer population is down from its high.
They had 5 extra tags in Eastern Ontario due to farmers complaints for deer eating all their crops. Near Lanark they actually had a Fathers Day hunt to try to reduce the numbers, is it better to have all the farmers crops eaten or to have the deer population at the proper carrying capacity.
Ottawa area - along the 417 deer road kills are almost non-existent compared to the mid 2000's when I'd see about one a week during spring/fall. It's rare to see deer standing in fields along the 417 during daylight hours - 10 years ago, seeing 10 or 20 was common. There are no doubt less deer around than 10 years ago - but were there too many back then?Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
that depends on your point of view ..LOL...Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
...and your point of view depends on whether you are a hunter, a farmer, or a vehicle insurer...Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
It also depends on how long you've been hunting. If you started hunting in the early 2000's, its a disaster. If you hunted during the 1970's and 1980's, its still pretty good now.
One thing people need to remember is that you can't stockpile deer. When there's lots, if they aren't killed by hunters, they are not going to stay around forever - winter kill, coyotes, cars, CWD (hopefully not up here yet) - they are going to die.
Another thing is that what Ontario has done with deer management is not out of line with some other areas (Michigan, Pennsylvania).
or a husband who's wife travels the 416 at dawn and dusk to work...the less deer in the fields, the less I worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche