some people need to read regulations

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

When it comes to recovering a deer after dark my guess is that it would all come down to the wording you decide to use if questioned. "Looking for my deer" would leave more room for interpretation than "recovering the deer I shot earlier".

The blurry area is not knowing whether or not the deer is dead, but if you made what you believe to have been a good shot, you have every reason to believe the deer is dead. The minute your "recovery" is in question, like finding a bed with blood in it but no deer, back out and resume your "recovery" at a later time.

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I agree. The second your recovery turns into pushing a deer after legal shooting time, then you have to back out.

Dyth

What if its not dead, and honestly how can anyone be 100% sure they have made a lethal shot. Many threads asking if this is legal or that is legal all come back to this part of the regs. It's not for me to really say what it is or isn't.

A CO will decide first, no matter what we think
A judge will decide secondly no matter what he the CO thinks
or she
:)

What I can do, and what I do do.
Letter of the law, and COs discretion.

If I was a CO not sure which way I could say which way I might go on these topics, Id have to be there, in the moment, in the COs shoes, evaluating this, evaluating that and more. Other than to say as the MNR usually does on all these threads, grey areas etc. Yes thats against the law...

We can't possibly cover all scenarios, all contingencies.
Letter of the law says unliscenced hunters cannot aid a hunt at all.
can't call
Can't walk more than a few feet away from the hunter ( at what point are they helping a push)
Cant help with Dekes....Throw out dekes, and 30 minutes later when the duck gets shot their action led to the duck being shot the part where it turns to "unless its hurt/killed"
Cant help retrieve game. Unless its dead and tagged. At that point they are not hunting.
but do anything, take any action that leads to something being hurt or killed and you then meet the legal definition. After that.......up to the CO

On one hand the law says we have to make every effort to retrieve the animals.
On the other hand the law says at times we can't. have to let it be and let fate decide if it becomes worm and scavenger or not.....

Only time I know for sure that something is dead, lethally shot. Is when it piles up in my sight, or cries like a baby for mom for a few seconds ( A bears death moan). While I can't see the bear, I can hear that.


So, your friend shoot a buck in the guts. or maybe just high in the shoulder. He swears up and down it was a good shot, is positive it was. You wait until after legal light and the end of the season to start tracking it. Or you go out first thing the next morning......And its not dead.

You are not safe.
If you put the buck out of its misery, you've made things worse. You've killed an animal when the season is closed.

Now I am not going to say what I think is right wrong, what anyone else should do or how they should interpret the situation. Thats for the CO...

Me
I just don't put myself in that position to begin with. Last day of the season Im done usually by 2pm. That is my personal "last legal"
:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I was alluding to this when I wrote it and did had not even read the CO question and answer. So recovery is allowed "IF" you are sure you have made a clean shot but how many people are sure of that? Which brought up my point about contacting the MNR prior to a search.Its mentioned right in the answer.


"If the animal was wounded and not killed, then chances are that it would eventually die and be eaten by scavengers. You could not continue to hunt and kill this animal unless you had contacted an officer who authorized you to do so.
Clearly, then, you should be very aware of the consequences of making a poor shot at an animal at the end of a day or season. Chances are that animal’s life will be wasted and that is not what good hunting ethics are all about."

So in your case you and I quote "I have a story of my first bowhunting season. I lost a deer. Last day of the season, shot was in legal shooting time in the later hour of the afternoon (not quite dark but close to legal, what I refer to as the magic hour). I made a shot which I believe hit a branch and deflected the arrow into a non vital area (not even the gut). Deer took off and actually ran by my buddy who was hunting a fair bit away. I had blood at the sign, not a lot but I knew that I had hit the deer. Radioed my buddy and told him about the deer and he said he saw a deer run by him. So we started to track. 30 mins past sunset we encased our bows (we both had soft cases) and continued. Tiny blood trail and we tracked for 250 yards. Now it is 2-2 1/2 hours after legal shooting time because the blood trail was so poor although we did manage to find one bed. My buddy suggests that we back out, let the deer lay down and come back tomorrow because we were starting to get close to the landowner's property line.

I would definitely have contacted the MNR for permission as you did NOT MAKE A CLEAN KILLING SHOT by your own words and there is NO WAY your not still
legally hunting after dark in fact your 2 1/2 hours after dark.I think you need to re read the MNR CO question and answer.

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Your assertion we were hunting after dark is incorrect. We learned the fact the shot was poorly placed the next morning when we came across the deer and it got up. When I took the shot, I thought I had it clean. So no, we were not hunting after dark. We were in the process of recovering the deer (which under the circumstances we were allowed to do). We didn't pursue the animal in the morning because despite my shot, it was wounded. Not dead. The night before we had a blood trail and followed it. We couldn't find it so we backed out so we didn't cross over the line into hunting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Your assertion we were hunting after dark is incorrect. We learned the fact the shot was poorly placed the next morning when we came across the deer and it got up. When I took the shot, I thought I had it clean. So no, we were not hunting after dark. We were in the process of recovering the deer (which under the circumstances we were allowed to do). We didn't pursue the animal in the morning because despite my shot, it was wounded. Not dead. The night before we had a blood trail and followed it. We couldn't find it so we backed out so we didn't cross over the line into hunting.

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Oh it was the next morning you realized you made a bad shot REALLY.You made a shot which deflected of a tree branch and hit the deer in a non vital area,not even the gut.Lets give you the benefit of the doubt here and say you found evidence the next morning you hit a tree branch.

The deer ran by your buddy that night and he was a fair bit away.Could you not assume right then you had not made a killing shot?
So you started to track for up to 2 1/2hrs and you decided to come back the next day, apparently not because you were hunting after dark but because
you were to close to the landowners property line.

There s a difference between a "clean shot" and a "clean killing shot" which clearly yours was not.In my opinion from your own description you were hunting after dark and at the very least you should have contacted the Ministry as is recommended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Dyth

What if its not dead, and honestly how can anyone be 100% sure they have made a lethal shot. Many threads asking if this is legal or that is legal all come back to this part of the regs. It's not for me to really say what it is or isn't.

A CO will decide first, no matter what we think
A judge will decide secondly no matter what he the CO thinks
or she
:)

What I can do, and what I do do.
Letter of the law, and COs discretion.

If I was a CO not sure which way I could say which way I might go on these topics, Id have to be there, in the moment, in the COs shoes, evaluating this, evaluating that and more. Other than to say as the MNR usually does on all these threads, grey areas etc. Yes thats against the law...

We can't possibly cover all scenarios, all contingencies.
Letter of the law says unliscenced hunters cannot aid a hunt at all.
can't call
Can't walk more than a few feet away from the hunter ( at what point are they helping a push)
Cant help with Dekes....Throw out dekes, and 30 minutes later when the duck gets shot their action led to the duck being shot the part where it turns to "unless its hurt/killed"
Cant help retrieve game. Unless its dead and tagged. At that point they are not hunting.
but do anything, take any action that leads to something being hurt or killed and you then meet the legal definition. After that.......up to the CO

On one hand the law says we have to make every effort to retrieve the animals.
On the other hand the law says at times we can't. have to let it be and let fate decide if it becomes worm and scavenger or not.....

Only time I know for sure that something is dead, lethally shot. Is when it piles up in my sight, or cries like a baby for mom for a few seconds ( A bears death moan). While I can't see the bear, I can hear that.


So, your friend shoot a buck in the guts. He swears up and down it was a good shot. You wait until after legal light and the end of the season to start tracking it. Or you go out first thing the next morning......And its not dead.

You are not safe.
If you put the buck out of its misery, you've made things worse. You've killed an animal when the season is closed.

Now I am not going to say what I think is right wrong, what anyone else should do or how they should interpret the situation. Thats for the CO...

Me
I just don't put myself in that position to begin with. Last day of the season Im done usually by 2pm. That is my personal "last legal"
:)

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You are absolutely correct. The CO will decide whether our actions are correct or not. We have to read the law and interpret it as best we can. When you shot an animal close to legal light you are to recover that animal under the spoilage section of the FWCA but you can't let your actions move you into the realm of hunting after legal light.

As for your example of your friend shooting in the guts at the end of the season, if you find the deer alive the next day, you have to leave it because if you kill it then, you have now crossed over into hunting and the deer is out of season. It sucks but that is how the law reads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Oh it was the next morning you realized you made a bad shot REALLY.You made a shot which deflected of a tree branch and hit the deer in a non vital area,not even the gut.Lets give you the benefit of the doubt here and say you found evidence the next morning you hit a tree branch.

The deer ran by your buddy that night and he was a fair bit away.Could you not assume right then you had not made a killing shot?
So you started to track for up to 2 1/2hrs and you decided to come back the next day, apparently not because you were hunting after dark but because
you were to close to the landowners property line.

There s a difference between a "clean shot" and a "clean killing shot" which clearly yours was not.In my opinion from your own description you were hunting after dark and at the very least you should have contacted the Ministry as is recommended.

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Yea. It was. Clearly you don't believe me. We did what we thought we had to under the law for a recovery until it was evident that it was not longer a recovery. And yea I believe I hit a branch. It is also within the realm of possibility that I made a bad shot. I thought I had made a good shot and would find a dead deer. A deer shot through one lung can travel a long distance before it expires and leave very little blood. I stand firmly behind my actions.

Yep, also includes that evening. "what if".
You leave your rifle bow in the truck and go look for it. You find it, but its still breathing, so you slit its throat. Drag it out of the bush at 8pm or 10pm and a CO is waiting by the truck...oh oh.

Safest thing is to call the local, no different than when a buck makes it to private property.
Lol one area I hunt even gps signals aren't a sure thing......

So if theres any weapons present, the next day..whatever/whichever .Kind of hard to argue with a CO "not hunting". The CO may still be ok with it, understand its just a guy trying to do the "right thing".
A) follow the law ( make every effort)
B) Not let an animal suffer
And maybe let him or them go with a warning.
Don't know I'm not the CO and not there in the moment.

But by the same token I get why the law is written that way...bad apples and more.

Even though I already said which way I lean on this one ( I don't agree). Not going to put myself where its up to a CO and things I have zero control over, or a buck in that situation ( aka possibly deing a slow death) if I can avoid it.

Past experience would leave me to choose NOT to voluntarily involve the MNR with just about anything. I would call them if we made a mistake on a moose (i.e. shot a young cow rather than a calf) but that's about it.

I can't see them having the resources to deal with every bow hunter calling them about recovering a deer after dark either. It's not an uncommon thing.

Boy................. the internet sure makes me feel stupid......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Past experience would leave me to choose NOT to voluntarily involve the MNR with just about anything. I would call them if we made a mistake on a moose (i.e. shot a young cow rather than a calf) but that's about it.

I can't see them having the resources to deal with every bow hunter calling them about recovering a deer after dark either. It's not an uncommon thing.

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I also don,t think they have the resources to deal with every bow hunter calling, but the heads up is probably appreciated.If you have called and they know what your up to they can probably write off the complaint call they might get if somebody calls about your activities.The fact you made the call would indicate your on the up and up and can ascertain where you might be the next morning.That then free,s them up for a possible real violation call that same night.