Bear Speared

Talk about cherry picking maybe you missed this paragraph LOL

[COLOR=#000000]The lions are abundant throughout Maasailand. Their typical hideouts are grassy plains, deep forests, behind termite mounts, under the acacia trees, and other wild cozy places. The lion search ranges from 20 minutes to 10 hours. The Maasai warriors must chase a lion with rattle bells and make him upset. This chasing method forces a lion to develop anger and face the hunter. Another successful hunting method is to force a lion to move away from the kill. Any of these methods would provoke a fight with a lion. The game between warriors and lions is similar to that of a cat and a mouse.

When you tried to compare a Maasai warrior to this spear hunter I think you already lost the plot.

P.S. Also missed "[COLOR=#000000] Keep in mind that many warriors have been lost to lions." I suppose if this spear hunting takes off we can expect the same number of casualties.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Talk about cherry picking maybe you missed this paragraph LOL

[COLOR=#000000]The lions are abundant throughout Maasailand. Their typical hideouts are grassy plains, deep forests, behind termite mounts, under the acacia trees, and other wild cozy places. The lion search ranges from 20 minutes to 10 hours. The Maasai warriors must chase a lion with rattle bells and make him upset. This chasing method forces a lion to develop anger and face the hunter. Another successful hunting method is to force a lion to move away from the kill. Any of these methods would provoke a fight with a lion. The game between warriors and lions is similar to that of a cat and a mouse.

When you tried to compare a Maasai warrior to this spear hunter I think you already lost the plot.

P.S. Also missed "[COLOR=#000000] Keep in mind that many warriors have been lost to lions." I suppose if this spear hunting takes off we can expect the same number of casualties.

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Why do you think I have lost the plot comparing the two of them? They both use spears to kill the animal and that is one of the main reasons why people are upset about this (the other is his attitude).

You still haven't answered the question though: why is it ok for the Maasai to use a spear and not this guy? Make sure you judge both hunts with the same criteria. The bear hunter is going to eat the bear, the Maasai don't. The bear hunter used a bait to attract a bear (not illegal or unethical), the Maasai use bells to get the lions to attack them (harassing the animal). The bear hunter uses a superior version of the Maasai spear and is just as effective with it as the Maasai lion hunters. So if you are going to condemn the hunting of one animal with a spear, best be ready to condemn all spear hunting (and spear fishing).

As your causalities comment, do we stop hunters from bowhunting Grizzlys, moose, black bear, wolves, etc from the ground? All of those animals can easily kill a human being (or at least put a hurting on them). So you comment of "someone might get hurt" doesn't apply, no one lives in a bubble. You hunt that way for that species, you take your chances.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Why do you think I have lost the plot comparing the two of them? They both use spears to kill the animal and that is one of the main reasons why people are upset about this (the other is his attitude).

You still haven't answered the question though: why is it ok for the Maasai to use a spear and not this guy? Make sure you judge both hunts with the same criteria. The bear hunter is going to eat the bear, the Maasai don't. The bear hunter used a bait to attract a bear (not illegal or unethical), the Maasai use bells to get the lions to attack them (harassing the animal). The bear hunter uses a superior version of the Maasai spear and is just as effective with it as the Maasai lion hunters. So if you are going to condemn the hunting of one animal with a spear, best be ready to condemn all spear hunting (and spear fishing).

As your causalities comment, do we stop hunters from bowhunting Grizzlys, moose, black bear, wolves, etc from the ground? All of those animals can easily kill a human being (or at least put a hurting on them). So you comment of "someone might get hurt" doesn't apply, no one lives in a bubble. You hunt that way for that species, you take your chances.

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He doesn't eat most of what he kills, if you read up more on him, he and his wife say they donate thousands and thousands of pounds of surplus meat to charities, he is hunting WELL beyond what he needs, it's that greed that irks me. If you don't need the meat, then you're doing it for fun. and killing wild game purely for fun, whether legal or not, is not something i can support. and don't tell me he's doing this altruistically, that's just how he gets in the backdoor of the "letting meat spoil" laws, so he can keeping killing for kicks.
and then he lumps us all together, well guess what, i'm not on his team. All muslims aren't ISIS, and all hunters aren't this guy. People like him are why we can't have nice things, no respect, then publicizes his lack of respect for all to see and read.

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Originally Posted by TrapJack

He doesn't eat most of what he kills, if you read up more on him, he and his wife say they donate thousands and thousands of pounds of surplus meat to charities, he is hunting WELL beyond what he needs, it's that greed that irks me. If you don't need the meat, then you're doing it for fun. and killing wild game purely for fun, whether legal or not, is not something i can support. and don't tell me he's doing this altruistically, that's just how he gets in the backdoor of the "letting meat spoil" laws, so he can keeping killing for kicks.
and then he lumps us all together, well guess what, i'm not on his team. All muslims aren't ISIS, and all hunters aren't this guy. People like him are why we can't have nice things, no respect, then publicizes his lack of respect for all to see and read.

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It seems to me the majority of your posts were ranting against the way he killed the bear rather the quantity of meat he consumed.

Furthermore, if donating meat that you hunt isn't what you think hunting is or gives hunting a bad name, I would propose nearly every single hunter on here has given hunting a black eye because at some point they have given meat away. When excess deer seals come out, I would buy one more than I figured I would need to try to donate meat to my friend's church soup kitchen in Toronto. I would even take care of having it butchered myself. Is feed people less fortunate than myself giving hunting a bad name? You want to paint this guy with a broad stroked brush and condemn every thing he does without hearing his side of the story or why he does something. Donating meat to others shouldn't be condemned because you don't know what shape those others are in or because you have some misconstrued idea of how hunters should act. I would argue if you have the ability to provide for the less fortunate and show compassion for them, that is being less selfish if you just take for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

It seems to me the majority of your posts were ranting against the way he killed the bear rather the quantity of meat he consumed.

Furthermore, if donating meat that you hunt isn't what you think hunting is or gives hunting a bad name, I would propose nearly every single hunter on here has given hunting a black eye because at some point they have given meat away. When excess deer seals come out, I would buy one more than I figured I would need to try to donate meat to my friend's church soup kitchen in Toronto. I would even take care of having it butchered myself. Is feed people less fortunate than myself giving hunting a bad name? You want to paint this guy with a broad stroked brush and condemn every thing he does without hearing his side of the story or why he does something. Donating meat to others shouldn't be condemned because you don't know what shape those others are in or because you have some misconstrued idea of how hunters should act. I would argue if you have the ability to provide for the less fortunate and show compassion for them, that is being less selfish if you just take for yourself.

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I didn't say a single word against the way he killed the bear, try re-reading, and quote something i said against "the way he killed the bear" in context (hint: it doesn't exist) all of my criticism surrounds everything BUT how he killed it. i don't have a problem with him spear hunting a bear legally in Alberta.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

It seems to me the majority of your posts were ranting against the way he killed the bear rather the quantity of meat he consumed.

Furthermore, if donating meat that you hunt isn't what you think hunting is or gives hunting a bad name, I would propose nearly every single hunter on here has given hunting a black eye because at some point they have given meat away. When excess deer seals come out, I would buy one more than I figured I would need to try to donate meat to my friend's church soup kitchen in Toronto. I would even take care of having it butchered myself. Is feed people less fortunate than myself giving hunting a bad name? You want to paint this guy with a broad stroked brush and condemn every thing he does without hearing his side of the story or why he does something. Donating meat to others shouldn't be condemned because you don't know what shape those others are in or because you have some misconstrued idea of how hunters should act. I would argue if you have the ability to provide for the less fortunate and show compassion for them, that is being less selfish if you just take for yourself.

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You really do struggle with reading comprehension don't you. i didn't condemn donating meat, we all end up with some excess at times, or know people that need help. My point was that in HIS PARTICULAR circumstance, he is simply using that as an excuse to travel the world thrill hunting. Don't pretend that you taking an extra deer for starving friends is the same as what he is doing, the difference is intent, he doesn't do it for people that need meat like you or i, he does it so he has an excuse to go kill in "new cool ways, and kill new exciting new animals" there is a massive difference. and i have stated that clearly, your'e the one painting with broad strokes by associating anything i said with being "anti-meat donation" or whatever BS you tried to spin it towards. i'm saying he's a slick rick loser that's skirting laws so he can thrill kill by leaving "thousands and thousands of pounds a years" (his words) to whatever local group will pick it up once he's done with his adrenaline rush. If the popular vote is yours, then hunting is doomed. this guy is bad for business.

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Originally Posted by TrapJack

Given that i read this as a serious statement by the hunter, and not at all intentionally hyperbolic. let's start with a few quotes as examples.
"Not to mention, I got 24 inches of penetration on that bear causing more damage and trauma to the bear than any arrow/broadhead/bullet combination could ever cause."
- There are plenty of gauge/caliber options that would cause more damage and trauma than this did. His statement is BS.

"a spear will kill an animal twice as fast as an arrow will. Just think about how much larger a blade on a spear is compared to a broad head on an arrow. Normal fix blade broad heads have a 1 inch cutting diameter in width and 1 inch in length."
- Seriously? Do i need to explain the errors in logic here?

"It’s considerably effortless to see why my last statement would be correct"
- This sentence just doesn't make any sense at all, but i can get passed it by reading between the lines.

"The Bear I speared only ran 60 yards and died immediately"
- Again, this makes no sense, if it ran 60 yards, it can't have "died immediately." He's an idiot.

"why not use a rifle and shoot the animal from 500 yards away with it having no chance to escape"
- Now he's lying about rifle hunting and putting it down. As if any animal within 500 yards is an automatic kill like turning on a light. More BS.

"The truth is we care more than anyone about these animals"
- Most of us don't like to hear this, but that's BS too, i have plenty of non-hunting friends that care just as much as i do, or any hunter does. he's trying to make it a "us vs them" thing, and it doesn't have to be that. exaggeration is always a mistake in arguments.

"In closing, you all should be ashamed of yourselves for trying to kill a heritage that has existed for over a million years. Literally, since the dawn of man, the spear has been a vital role in survival. The mere existence of our ancestors relied on the spear"
- This is biggest fallacy that some hunters try and hide behind. Just because something used to happen does not mean it still should, that's not a valid argument. Heritage is important but it doesn't exist in a bubble that protects it no matter what simply for being tradition. more has to go into it.

"spear hunting gives the animal the greatest chance of escape, considering our ethical killing range is within 10 yards"
- compared to what? not compared to using a pig sticker. again he's exaggerating.

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5 out of 8 complaints in your initial post complain in one form or another about his use of the spear.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

5 out of 8 complaints in your initial post complain in one form or another about his use of the spear.

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Try reading again, my comments are about HIS STATEMENTS on using a spear, not about using a spear in general. Now you're going to scoff at that, but it's a fact. which 5? tell me what i'm missing, i'm simply criticizing his statements on spear hunting, i'm not criticizing spear hunting

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Originally Posted by TrapJack

You really do struggle with reading comprehension don't you. i didn't condemn donating meat, we all end up with some excess at times, or know people that need help. My point was that in HIS PARTICULAR circumstance, he is simply using that as an excuse to travel the world thrill hunting. Don't pretend that you taking an extra deer for starving friends is the same as what he is doing, the difference is intent, he doesn't do it for people that need meat like you or i, he does it so he has an excuse to go kill in "new cool ways, and kill new exciting new animals" there is a massive difference. and i have stated that clearly, your'e the one painting with broad strokes by associating anything i said with being "anti-meat donation" or whatever BS you tried to spin it towards. i'm saying he's a slick rick loser that's skirting laws so he can thrill kill by leaving "thousands and thousands of pounds a years" (his words) to whatever local group will pick it up once he's done with his adrenaline rush. If the popular vote is yours, then hunting is doomed. this guy is bad for business.

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No I don't struggle with reading comprehension. But you seem to think you know why he gives meat away. There is nothing wrong with giving meat away and continuing to hunt. He buys his tags/seals just like everyone else and he has a right to fill those tags. If you don't like the game, change the rules, don't grief the players. Don't to push your ethics on them.

You say he is skirting the law. How exactly is he doing it? Give specific examples and buying more than one tag if that is an option falls within the law. You don't like the fact he kills more than one bear or he takes what you deem to be too much meat. Too bad. Your likes or dislikes are irrelevant as long as he is following the law. That is what you seem to be unable to comprehend.

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Originally Posted by TrapJack

Try reading again, my comments are about HIS STATEMENTS on using a spear, not about using a spear in general. Now you're going to scoff at that, but it's a fact. which 5? tell me what i'm missing, i'm simply criticizing his statements on spear hunting, i'm not criticizing spear hunting

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The caliber comment, the killing the animal with a spear is twice as fast as arrow comment, the couldn't have died immediately comment, the tradition comment and the pig sticker comment. All of those comments at the time is a criticism of spear hunting. Now you are saying you were commenting on his statements. Ok. Sure. If you say so...