Ontario’s sweeping Moose Project proposal leaves hunters reeling. Have your say now.

Ontario is miles behind most of North America in managing our large ungulates. Moose (as has been suggested several times) should be on a points system and the "party hunting" system should be scrapped or modified to resemble the elk system where only four hunters can be listed on a tag.

Under a points system most moose hunters would go hunting less frequently - but when they did go hunting they would have an actual tag and hopefully a better population to hunt.

Moose are like the "canary in the coal mine" for our modern ungulate populations. There are many forces at play (most which we don't understand very well) from hunting pressure to aboriginal harvest to forestry practices to climate change. The option of carrying on as we always have is going to continue to deliver diminishing returns and is not the way forward. Real change is needed - will the MNR have the stones to do it?

I hope party hunting will continue. I rather a group of 10 get a tag then groups of 4 getting one.

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Originally Posted by buckchaser

Ontario is miles behind most of North America in managing our large ungulates. Moose (as has been suggested several times) should be on a points system and the "party hunting" system should be scrapped or modified to resemble the elk system where only four hunters can be listed on a tag.

Under a points system most moose hunters would go hunting less frequently - but when they did go hunting they would have an actual tag and hopefully a better population to hunt.

Moose are like the "canary in the coal mine" for our modern ungulate populations. There are many forces at play (most which we don't understand very well) from hunting pressure to aboriginal harvest to forestry practices to climate change. The option of carrying on as we always have is going to continue to deliver diminishing returns and is not the way forward. Real change is needed - will the MNR have the stones to do it?

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Good post. I doubt the MNR has the courage for real change. Even on the forum here there is quite a bit of support for party hunting, even though I haven't seen any one argue that it's *not* part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I certainly agree that not issuing as many Cow tags would be prudent because it sure has worked for the Deer population which is undeniable,but,by using the above rationale,would it not then follow that if one of two calves was taken by a predator and the hunter takes the second,that there would be an exponential population drop?

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The only way for there to be an exponential drop as you suggest is for there to be year(S) of repeated Calf Mortalities that exceeds calf age class recruitment levels required to off set the Adult Mortality Rate (especially as it pertains to replacement of those animal with the highest reproductive potential i.e.: Mature Cows and Mature Bulls.)
Which the Ontario Selective Adult Tag Harvest System is designed to control and prevent if managed as designed by annually adjusting the Adult Tag Allocation in order to maintain an annual average adult harvest rates (below 10 % of the know Area Population for population growth) or (up to 12 % for a stable population.)
The problem as I see it for some unknown reason those responsible for the management of the adult tag system in the past decided to or been directed to disregard the historical harvest data indicators and issue excessive Adult Tags year after year contrary to their own population harvest data indicating that tag reductions were necessary in order to prevent population decline.

Note:
That estimated predation related mortalities is also supposed to be factored into the annual adult tag level allocation decision process and adjusted accordingly as levels fluctuate over time in turn influencing the 10 to 12 % indicators I mentioned above.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

And therein lies the problem with revamping Ontario's moose hunt into a sustainable model.

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Really....please tell me how continuing "party hunting" will create a "problem"
I would really like to hear this

[QUOTE=Obi-wanShinobi;877648]I hope party hunting will continue. I rather a group of 10 get a tag then groups of 4 getting on

Agreed, BUT if the MNRF is to continue with the "calf" hunt it will be detrimental to the herd unless the party has a "cow plus 1 " which allows said group to harvest a calf if the cow has one(why orphan a calf) Harvest your adult moose then go fishing, shoot birds etc etc
Not to difficult to do!

I'm pretty sure the original intent of party hunting was not to have groups of 10 - 15 plus hunters looking to fill one tag. As such, a higher percentage of tags get filled because each tag has many hunters looking to fill it.

Unrestricted group size party hunting is fine when moose are plentiful - but clearly, they are not.

Also, the fact party hunting is not permitted for most big game hunting in North America tells you something about party hunting and its compatibility with wildlife management.

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Originally Posted by 270 WBY

Really....please tell me how continuing "party hunting" will create a "problem"
I would really like to hear this

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Party hunting results in nearly every adult tag being filled.
With the high success rate, the MNR allocates less tags (as they should).
So there are more 'hunting opportunities' but they are lower quality.
Again, there's a good reason party hunting for moose is a rarity in the rest of the world - yet the MNR here in Ontario hangs on to it.
It is not a good game management strategy. It's geared entirely towards selling tags, not quality hunting opportunities.

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Originally Posted by 270 WBY

I dont....
'party hunting" should still be allowed
the rest I can live with

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Partying hunting is just too loosey goosey. Limit the size of the party and make those in the party register on the tag. I can't believe what happens in the camp next to me once somebody gets a tag .....any tag! Over 20 guys in two camps hunt on those tags. Once the guys realize they have a tag the call goes out to everybody and their brother to join the "party hunt". No wonder there's the odd mistake during the hunt.

I'd like to see QC's use of multiple tags required for a single moose implemented in Ontario as well - if you are 'party hunting' on an adult tag, when that tag get used, you're done.