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All I am saying is that there are times when a mistake is made and that it is okay to extend grace and compassion based on the circumstances and still see justice served.

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So a person who kills a deer or moose because they are destitute and need it to feed their family are making a "mistake"? Don't think so. I think it is an intentional choice they make to break the law hoping they don't get caught and hope for leniency if they do. That is where the justice system kicks in. Yes some LEO's may exercise that "justice" at the side of the road, but that is why Judges get paid the big bucks also. There can be compassion at all stages of the justice system. But it is poaching at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

So a person who kills a deer or moose because they are destitute and need it to feed their family are making a "mistake"? Don't think so. I think it is an intentional choice they make to break the law hoping they don't get caught and hope for leniency if they do. That is where the justice system kicks in. Yes some LEO's may exercise that "justice" at the side of the road, but that is why Judges get paid the big bucks also. There can be compassion at all stages of the justice system. But it is poaching at the end of the day.

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Call it a "mistake, infraction, violation, crime, etc" - who cares. Just because something is done intentionally with the hope of not getting caught does not mean it is not a mistake. The definition of mistake is "an action or judgement that is misguided or wrong." The action of poaching falls into this category the same as it falls into the category of "infraction, violation or crime."

On offender may not believe they are not committing a mistake at the time of the offence but in hindsight the same offender will often freely admit that they committed their actions intentionally but that it was a mistake to do so.

Also if you read all the posts I have made I never stated that it is not poaching - it is obviously poaching no matter the reason. I have also been clear that poaching is wrong and equally clear that in many cases where poaching is done for subsistence reasons, charges, a conviction and punishment are warranted. In some cases however justice would be better served by extending grace to the offender. This does not mean that I condone the offender's actions or that the offender did not commit a "mistake, infraction, violation or crime."

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Where in my post do i promote poaching and/or law breaking? Poaching is wrong. All I am saying is that there are times when a mistake is made and that it is okay to extend grace and compassion based on the circumstances and still see justice served. That does not mean one does not recognize that the was law broken or that you condone their actions. It just means that you are choosing not to punish them for their mistake - this falls within the definition of grace not promotion. Without a little bit of grace we would all be in a world of hurt at different times.

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Sorry didn't apply you supported poaching.

I bet just about every hunter who has hunted any length of time has broken a law or two - some by honest mistake, some by careless mistake and some because it was rationalized as the smart thing to do at the time - I could give you a lot of situations where you can intentionally break a law because the alternative would not be practical - here's an example - we have antler restrictions - during buck season you can only shoot a buck with a least 3 points on one antler - so you see this buck running down the trail - you scope it and it looks legal so you shoot - it drops but then you see that it is a Y buck - an honest mistake - maybe a careless mistake - now by law you are suppose to call the game commission and tell them what happened - they come and take the deer and then listen to your story and maybe decide that you acted wrong and you end up with a find - which often happens - I think most hunters would take the deer home and say nothing -

Down here we can't bait deer - putting out any food for them is a violation - a lot of hunters are being caught because of this rule - most of them think it is unfair that a guy can plant a acre or two of corn or other feed to bring in the deer and that is ok but if you put out a bucket of feed out it is unlawful - so guys are baiting deer and some are getting caught -

What I'm saying is that if laws are considered stupid or unfair people will break them - I'm sure a lot of guys will shoot deer and feel that if the natives can do it then it is unfair and end up doing the same -

I watch a program on TV called - Life Below Zero - there is a family on there that live in Alaska - the husband is a white guy and his wife is a native - they have 5 girls - the program is mostly about this family living off the land - the wife can shoot anything anytime - they shoot caribou in the water - club geese when they can't fly - harvest geese and duck eggs - use nets to fish - it is something to see the amount of animals and fish they consume - I can see if some guy up in Alaska sees this and says to himself - holy mackerel

Your right Joe....for the sanctimonious on here, there is an old saying: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone"

I love that show by the way..

Another example you take you son/daughter say Goose hunting legally speaking they can not tell you they see a goose coming from the other direction as they would be assisting in the hunt. Now you tell me someone who takes their kid hunting and they never say a thing or maybe you don't let then help retrieve one of the geese and I would say your a liar. Sometimes laws are broken and if that makes me a bad person well I can live with it.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Another example you take you son/daughter say Goose hunting legally speaking they can not tell you they see a goose coming from the other direction as they would be assisting in the hunt. Now you tell me someone who takes their kid hunting and they never say a thing or maybe you don't let then help retrieve one of the geese and I would say your a liar. Sometimes laws are broken and if that makes me a bad person well I can live with it.

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I think we (the internet) are to blame for that.... We fight amongst ourselves so often we forget the intent of the law and make up our own translations posting it all over the net... No CO would ever lay a charge for something like that.....

Killing something so one can survive and killing something for hunting may not be the same thing, so the rules can be interpreted differently.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Your right Joe....for the sanctimonious on here, there is an old saying: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone"

I love that show by the way..

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Have to agree but what some guys on this forum forget is this is a public forum so let's not promote breaking the law... Crap happens and families are desperate to feed their family...

Crap does happen and I agree that lots of people break laws and make mistakes. There is a difference between making a mistake that breaks the law and choosing to ignore a law hence breaking it. If one shoot s a y buck thinking it was a 3 point that very well may have been a mistake but to ignore the law and take it home rather than report it is a choice to ignore and break the law.. May be a little hard to convince the LEO of the mistake after getting caught sneaking it home.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Call it a "mistake, infraction, violation, crime, etc" - who cares. Just because something is done intentionally with the hope of not getting caught does not mean it is not a mistake. The definition of mistake is "an action or judgement that is misguided or wrong." The action of poaching falls into this category the same as it falls into the category of "infraction, violation or crime."

On offender may not believe they are not committing a mistake at the time of the offence but in hindsight the same offender will often freely admit that they committed their actions intentionally but that it was a mistake to do so.

Also if you read all the posts I have made I never stated that it is not poaching - it is obviously poaching no matter the reason. I have also been clear that poaching is wrong and equally clear that in many cases where poaching is done for subsistence reasons, charges, a conviction and punishment are warranted. In some cases however justice would be better served by extending grace to the offender. This does not mean that I condone the offender's actions or that the offender did not commit a "mistake, infraction, violation or crime."

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Species, as usual your posts are well thought out and articulated. Unfortunately, some are having difficulty distinguishing between discussing an issue and promoting it. Apparently if we don't vehemently condemn an illegal activity while we discuss it, then we must be supporting, condoning and promoting it. Just because what we're talking about is based on (gasp) fish and game laws doesn't mean we can't discuss it like we could anything else.

For the record, I think plenty of the regulations are just plain dumb but it doesn't mean that I won't follow them. Why does the tag holder have to attach the tag, even though he might be 80 years old and a 2 km walk from the shooter? Why should I have to encase my gun/bow at dark, even though it's too dark to use it anyway? Why does my shotgun have to be plugged for 3 shots, even though I'm using it in an area that my buddy can carry his lever action rifle that holds 7 shells?

I might sympathize with the guy who gets fined for walking that tag in to the deer for the old-timer, or the guy who forgets his gun sock in the truck, but it doesn't mean that I "promote" it or that I'd do it myself.

Sometimes the self-righteousness around here gets a little thick.