Ontario gunsmith shot and killed by police

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Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz

In my mind there's multiple investigations that should be taking place.
What about the police themselves? Did they investigate? What happened? Were the policies and procedures followed?
I know, we don't want them to investigate themselves unchecked, but that where SIU comes in, right?
Where is the frigging warrant? Who signed it? Why?
The most basic questions have no answers.

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Well the SIU has imposed their mandate here so as far as I know they are the led investigators. They will look into the whole matter.
A warrant was issued by a justice after an information was sworn to under oath. The information set out what grounds the police were relying on to obtain that warrant. It would include what offence it alleges has occurred under the Criminal Code. It could be information from a "know and reliable informant" it could be information obtained through a wire tap. Who knows.... Most often the search warrants are "sealed" in order to protect the identity of an informant or investigative technique. But a search warrant can get "unsealed" if a lawyer can allege his client was set up. This was described as a warrant under the firearms act in one article, so offences were alleged under our firearms laws.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Like I said the Commanding officer of the day and all the officers under his command know exactly what happened, no mystery, they have the answers. They train for these incursions, there is nothing left to chance, everyone has a specific task. So when something goes wrong...they know exactly the 5 W's.

The SIU just has to drag it out of them. That shouldn't take more than few days...not months.

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Sorry Mike there is no commanding officer this is not the army.

All we know is that officers from the Toronto Police Force executed the warrant, some were in plainclothes and some in tactical gear.
We can assume that is was the emergency task force backing up a local division or backing up the Provincial weapons enforcement unit.

All in all-the deceased could be involved in illegal activities.
All in all-he could be 100% innocent and honest citizen.
(may rest in peace)

We do not know.

But that fact does not matter.

A person was shot-and as far as i know, there is no open season on criminals. Therefore-shooting someone dead could be justified only in very limited cases.
I think so-and i hope so.

Having warrant or not,being a criminal -or not ,DOES NOT matter.

Only thing should matter-if there was a JUST CAUSE for one to be killed in his own house by police(like -pointing a gun at the officer,or pointing a gun at the "witness"who disappeared- he was shot ,to save another life.)

I am not sure if that will ever come out clear. So-this case has a high chance to disappear in oblivion.

Hope i am wrong.

What we do know about this tragedy is Toronto police drove over an hour to execute a search warrant. They end up killing a 70 year old. Their only defence to the SIU is to prove they were criminal or incompetent.

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Originally Posted by ysyg

Their only defence to the SIU is to prove they were criminal or incompetent.

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The body cams from the tac-team will have that on video...again...shouldn't take more than 1 hr...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The body cams from the tac-team will have that on video...again...shouldn't take more than 1 hr...

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You should apply to the SIU….you’re obviously a much better investigator !!

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

We can assume that is was the emergency task force backing up a local division or backing up the Provincial weapons enforcement unit.

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Wrong on both counts Gilroy.

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Originally Posted by dilly

Wrong on both counts Gilroy.

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I did say "assume" so seeing as how I am wrong, perhaps you can enlighten me somewhat?

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I did say "assume" so seeing as how I am wrong, perhaps you can enlighten me somewhat?

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I get what he means,gilly. The local service is the OPP who would have been backed by a TRU team. TPS intentionally left them out of the loop. Knowing his close working relationship,it can be safely assumed that TPS couldn't risk a security breech,however remote.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I get what he means,gilly. The local service is the OPP who would have been backed by a TRU team. TPS intentionally left them out of the loop. Knowing his close working relationship,it can safely assumed that TPS couldn't risk a security breech.

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I probably did not use the right wording, THE LOCAL DIVISION I mean as just being a normal Toronto division with the swat team. I did not mean to imply a local OPP division , I would have said detachment.

I am fully aware from the stories that the OPP were left out of the loop and I agree with you it was probably because of the close relationship between the victim and OPP .

I am at a loss for why we had to see what was probably a dynamic entry into the premises. If we assume again that it was all firearms related
its not like a bag of cocaine where it can be flushed down the loo. Why the big rush, its not as if any illegal firearms could easily be disposed of once they were at the door.