Post COVID return to work

I've worked from home and serviced remote clients in Canada and around the world for the last 20 years so the circumstances caused by COVID are nothing new to me. I've been doing video calls for years.

Remote working works if there is a pre-established relationship with the employer and among colleagues. The challenge becomes bringing in someone no one has met face to face. A lot of what makes a team successful are the interactions outside of the formal setting and I know my relationships with international teams were far better after a site visit.

What COVID has done is show that going into big office towers was as much habit as anything else and that companies can thrive without having large segments of the workforce under the same roof. When the storm subsides there will be more people working off-site but a wise executive would have his subordinates meet in person on a regular basis. So while people will be working from home, a far-away home wouldn't work.

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Originally Posted by JBen

I spent my life in those towers. Those are just the most obvious. Think about some standard white collar workers. Traders? Accountants, bookkeepers, lawyers, paralegals. Real estate lawyers and their people. The list is endless. Spin offs like TTC/Go train, all the retail with super high leases. In reality when the dust settles, Tory can lay off 10-20% of the cops and paramedics.
There’s way too many variables and moving parts.

But it’s already started.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...-scotia-plaza/

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The issue is when the white collar jobs start to leave Toronto - head offices and sales/finance/Bank offices start to move to cheaper suburban locations (Mississauga, Vaughan, Whitby), the people usually follow. This is the same model that reeked havoc on cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland, Buffalo leaving them dead. The term is called white flight and Toronto 'could' be the next victim. Now please let's not get jump on the soap box because of the name - it is not a white vs black thing it is the have vs have not thing.

Offices and higher paying jobs leave a city and the people making that money leave with it. The trades and technical jobs required to support these companies leave and work in the suburbs to build new offices and support the infrastructure. What is left in the city are dominantly lower paying service sector jobs and even those are not in high demand as they once were. Crime starts to increases, realestate values drop, cities tax base drops, cities start to operated in the red making it more difficult to maintain roads, infrastructure, pay cops and firefighters. I am not saying this will happen to Toronto but they may see smaller version of this - the wealthy leave because they can and the people that remain stay because they cannot afford to leave. In a city you can have the wealthy living beside the middle class that is not far from a struggling neighbourhood. In the burbs that does not exist - there are affluent areas and there are ghetto's.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

I've worked from home and serviced remote clients in Canada and around the world for the last 20 years so the circumstances caused by COVID are nothing new to me. I've been doing video calls for years.

Remote working works if there is a pre-established relationship with the employer and among colleagues. The challenge becomes bringing in someone no one has met face to face. A lot of what makes a team successful are the interactions outside of the formal setting and I know my relationships with international teams were far better after a site visit.

What COVID has done is show that going into big office towers was as much habit as anything else and that companies can thrive without having large segments of the workforce under the same roof. When the storm subsides there will be more people working off-site but a wise executive would have his subordinates meet in person on a regular basis. So while people will be working from home, a far-away home wouldn't work.

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I agree 100%

I have worked remotely the last 10 years - with GE and the company I am with now. I cover Canada so it does not matter where I live. I make it a point to meet with the agents quarterly and pre-COVID I was in the Chicago head office 8-10 times a year. Meeting the person face to face makes a WORLD of difference when building a relationship.

Had coffee with a fella this morning and the topic came up. He has two sons that work in th GTA. Both have been working from home for the past year. The eldest has had all the staff below him laid off and the company decided that operations will continue with 'work from home' offices' from now on.

They leased a conference office type facility, a building has multiple tenants who can rent by the day or week or month etc. There are big rooms for meetings and the office come with all the electronics etc and there is a central reception and security area shared used by all tenants.

Saves a HUGE mount of overhead for operations with having the 'at home' staff come in and to the face to face stuff on a need be basis.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Had coffee with a fella this morning and the topic came up. He has two sons that work in th GTA. Both have been working from home for the past year. The eldest has had all the staff below him laid off and the company decided that operations will continue with 'work from home' offices' from now on.

They leased a conference office type facility, a building has multiple tenants who can rent by the day or week or month etc. There are big rooms for meetings and the office come with all the electronics etc and there is a central reception and security area shared used by all tenants.

Saves a HUGE mount of overhead for operations with having the 'at home' staff come in and to the face to face stuff on a need be basis.

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This is the look of the future for companies that have a little vision.

Five years ago several large companies, one of which I did consulting work for, were looking to develop a Canadian advocacy organization for their sector and I proposed a virtual concept using a similar model. The plan called for quarterly meetings held in different locations across Canada but would otherwise be a comparatively inexpensive virtual organization.

The companies were too tied to their own big office towers and considered the concept too low brow. The organization never got off the ground due to cost. Maybe I need to dust the plan off and pitch it again. ;)

and then theres me who got out of college end of 2020, havent been able to find a job other than my uncles place for a couple months. unemployed no income at the moment. job searches are honestly getting useless as you put in a application either instantly send you a email back saying rejected or never get a call back.

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Originally Posted by Bowjob

and then theres me who got out of college end of 2020, havent been able to find a job other than my uncles place for a couple months. unemployed no income at the moment. job searches are honestly getting useless as you put in a application either instantly send you a email back saying rejected or never get a call back.

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That will be a big problem for your generation. A lot of good people were laid off with a whack of skills and experience are in the same job market as you are. It's going to take years to try and get the economy going again and get everyone back to work.

I hope it works out for you, it's gotta be tough ..

One of my sons works for a major communication's company and has been working from home for many years - once in a while he has to go for special meeting at one of their facilities but all in all things have gone great for him and his company - one of son-in-laws works for the Corp of Engineering and is currently working from home due to the virus - he loves it because he saves a lot of time and money not needing to commute to work each day - I think after this virus thing is over more people will start working from home because of what was learned during the pandemic - I always thought that eventually schools and all the busing involved could be done away with and a big savings for tax payers would result but it seems the kids aren't doing so well with home studies - the young kids seem to need a lot of social contact which doesn't happen with home studies - this pandemic has shown that you don't need to visit the doctor in person many times since you can visit with him on FaceTime or Zoom - I talk to my kids each day using these face to face methods of communication - it's great -

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Originally Posted by JoePa

One of my sons works for a major communication's company and has been working from home for many years - once in a while he has to go for special meeting at one of their facilities but all in all things have gone great for him and his company - one of son-in-laws works for the Corp of Engineering and is currently working from home due to the virus - he loves it because he saves a lot of time and money not needing to commute to work each day - I think after this virus thing is over more people will start working from home because of what was learned during the pandemic - I always thought that eventually schools and all the busing involved could be done away with and a big savings for tax payers would result but it seems the kids aren't doing so well with home studies - the young kids seem to need a lot of social contact which doesn't happen with home studies - this pandemic has shown that you don't need to visit the doctor in person many times since you can visit with him on FaceTime or Zoom - I talk to my kids each day using these face to face methods of communication - it's great -

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Humans, when we have to, adapt well.

41000
“White flight”, or Gentrification. Same thing. Some will argue it’s a good thing, some not.

That is definitely starting to occur. Myself, given preexisting issues. I expect it to be a whole lot of bad, with just limited good. At its simplest most people befitting are either blind to the downsides, or don’t care.
Me me me, and that is a long established trait of the GTA and it’s denizens.

Why should companies big or small, continue to pay people GTA salaries when those same employees are savings thousands, not taking the Go train, buying lunches, and don’t need wardrobes full of business attire....my aren’t we entitled :)

And let’s not forget that the less money people make, the less there is to spend (gdp) and the less for taxes.

And the reality is, there are people all over Canada and the world capable, of doing the same job, for far less.

GTA med duo 80k
PTBO med duo 57k
GTA single avg 97k

My company was progressive. I was a “book runner”, trader. And able to work from since y2k and our company took disaster recovery planning seriously. We also had plans, for people to work out of Montreal, New York in the event of a 9/11 type event.

What will the landscape look in 3-5 years? Very different, that much is sure. And, those “benefitting” today. Well sunny days don’t last forever. A lot of people just assume the status quo is granted.