Moose draw Round 2

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Originally Posted by Matt86

How would the government know that people would not claim tags after complaining no one gets tags?
Same amount got wasted before just wasn't a record on it cause you bought the tag automatically and had no choice. Hopefully next year is a system in place tags can be bought after draw 2.

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The Government should know-that is why they are in charge.
As a matter of fact, they likely could even estimate this ahead of time. After all-they ran the Surplus tag system,and they knew -for zillions of years, the surplus tags were gobbled up in few hours. In even remotely reasonable WMU-s.
Point system is not a novelty idea entirely either -there are many similar systems thru NA .

People are people ,and will not change. As any run of the mill hunter would estimate that no reasonable group will ever waste points. Especially with moose tag numbers dwindling. And no group wanting to go hunting will take chances of not having a tag.
The "lack "of control (no obligation to take the "awarded "tag)was built in the new system. Effectively there are no consequences of playing the "catch and release moose tag system".
At a cost of the ones, wanted to go hunting.

At least-at the end of the very first year this was OBVIOUS. Yet 4 years passed and no change.


As far as "same amount went waste in the last system"-I am lost what is the point there........
There was no"catch and release"in the system.All the ones wanted to get a tag(and were awarded)were put back a year of drawing rights.There was zero incentive to "push out"other groups either.
Or-to say it "politically corectly"-there was no incentive for the groups to: assure - then double assure -then triple assure to get a tag(then not claim the "unvanted tags"because HEY,we need to save points for the next season too).
All the surplus tags were made promptly available for the Unsuccessful moose hunters.

At the end:
We have yet to see what will change next year.....

at the end of the day the hunters aren't claiming tags, the government is super slow and useless we all know this.
Yes I agree needs to be another step. I want a bull tag in my name every year plan and simple and surplus tags may let that happen.
As tags were wasted before people were putting in every relative they had in the draw, how many times it happen people drew and didnt go?
I drew a bull tag in 2014 and didn't go, so that was a wasted tag that I didn't have a choice I couldn't send it back
I have hunted all over North America I'm not new to the points system. Elk tags after a draw can be bought over the counter in many areas.
But cause Ontario is so group hunting driven the system don't work the same as other places.

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Originally Posted by Matt86

at the end of the day the hunters aren't claiming tags, the government is super slow and useless we all know this.

But cause Ontario is so group hunting driven the system don't work the same as other places.

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Agreed -100%.
Your very first and very last sentence summarize it all .
I would say-your last sentence supersedes your very first one-which is right on the money(especially the second half of it):scream:

Of course Moose hunting is a group thing, because of their size.
Unclaimed tags I believe help the Moose population.
Only time will tell.

I don't get the logic that an unclaimed tag is a wasted tag. Hunters apply as individuals. The group dynamic only enters the picture after which tags that a group member(s) is awarded. Then, the decision is what tags to keep and purchase and which ones to leave in the pool for the secondary draw. To me,there's no such thing as a "wasted" tag.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I don't get the logic that an unclaimed tag is a wasted tag. Hunters apply as individuals. The group dynamic only enters the picture after which tags that a group member(s) is awarded. Then, the decision is what tags to keep and purchase and which ones to leave in the pool for the secondary draw. To me,there's no such thing as a "wasted" tag.

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Trimmer-the waste happens after the second application period.

Many go to waste because people apply-receive-but do not claim the tag.About 1/3 of all tags are not claimed each year.Each year there is a report about moose tag numbers not cliamed.Even here each year someone brings this up with statistics.
The problem indeed is that hunters apply individually(with group dynamics guiding or dictating what and where to apply for)and since the group has 2-3 awarded tags-they will not claim all(because they are "saving"points for next year-and the group do not "need "2-3 tags).
They apply"en masse"from a group to play safe(or perhaps to assure less competition around).
Then the unclaimed tags are "wasted" because the system does not provide access to them for interested hunters(surplus draw)

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

Of course Moose hunting is a group thing, because of their size.
Unclaimed tags I believe help the Moose population.
Only time will tell.

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Its a group thing but if only the tag holder could pull the trigger more tags get excepted and it cycles through everyone faster, nothing saying others cant call and help with recovery, That actually may help the moose population more then unclaimed tags.
Unclaimed tags have a very low impact with harvest rates so low in my opinion, And harvest rates on bulls is low because when the rifle season is not lack of them

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Originally Posted by Matt86

Its a group thing but if only the tag holder could pull the trigger more tags get excepted and it cycles through everyone faster, nothing saying others cant call and help with recovery, That actually may help the moose population more then unclaimed tags.
Unclaimed tags have a very low impact with harvest rates so low in my opinion, And harvest rates on bulls is low because when the rifle season is not lack of them

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We had the “only tag holder could shoot” scenario years ago. It didn’t work and was basically unenforceable. Lots of guns got traded back and forth amongst party members. We don’t need that back again. I was under the impression the MNR was going to fix the leftover tag issue this year, but here we are, same old same old ! How hard could it be to offer up excess tags?

There were proposed changes to the draw posted on the EBR last year. I think the government shutdown due to the spring election resulted in the changes being postponed. I expect changes for 2026.

One of the problems with the draw is the lack of trust that hunters have in draw. Ideally in a group situation (and assuming that only one bull tag is wanted), only the most senior point holder should apply. If the rest of the hunters in the group apply, they just clog up the queue or draw an unnecessary tag. Groups really need to talk things through and decide on types and numbers of tags wanted and who is in the best position to get drawn. Unfortunately a lack of trust in the system and a poor understanding of the draw results in every one applying. Some guys actually think it’s hip to turn down a tag, whatever!

One of the proposed changes was to force hunters to accept tags in the second draw or forfeit their points. The message is “don’t apply unless you intend to accept the tag!” It will be interesting to see what changes go ahead and the impact on the draw.