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Clean up fallen trees? Yup, I do it, that is why there is a Stihl MS 250 on my bike all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
Pick up garbage? Yes and empty beer cans and bottles.
Signage? don't need it. I can clearly see where hundreds of atv's have been before.
If they are volunteers why does the clubs need so much money? Most are charging over $100 per machine per year.
Unlike the roads and highways, the trails are tended by volunteers and club members. They are not full time maintenance workers and don't get paid for there work. By the sounds of all against fees there really isn't many members in the clubs. Not compared to the snowmobile clubs. So if you clean up the trail I thank you B Wilson. I do my part as well but most ride and drive by without a blink. As for signage it helps in emergencies as well. Not everyone is trail savy, have a gps or can tell someone where there are. As far as the wardens like so much of society, the gift of social communication (talking to one another)has been lost by many, not every warden is out to get you. So it may not suite you but for others trying to get into the sport or meeting others likewise clubs do have there merits.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Wilson
I have no problem with snowmobile or ATV clubs per se, I think they have benefits to their members. I find the OFSC permit fees to be outrageous for the amount of time you can get on the trails in a season, however, I do not own a snowmobile, so it doesn't affect me.
The real problem I have with organized trails, especially in my area is that many of these trails cross Crown Land and the trails themselves were cut many years before the OFSC existed. Now, the people that used these trails for decades are now banned from them. There are certain exceptions for anglers, trappers and hunters, but many of them simply enjoyed riding those trail for the ride. Now they are banned unless they pay several hundred dollars for as little as five weeks of riding. We had one season several years ago that was officially five weeks because of a late fall and mild weather well into January. It was five weeks between the time they opened the trails and the early spring weather melted the snow and closed the trails in March.
I don't believe that just anyone should have access to trails that were set up under the OFSC banner on private property. THe OFSC did the work to gain access and create the trail, they have a right to charge for use. The ones that existed before OFSC on Crown land should be open access to anyone.
Another issue I have is that they permit the machine, not the operator. If my machine breaks down and I borrow one for a ride, my permission to ride the trail is with the broken machine. If they gave a card saying that the operator was permitted with another machine if they got stopped, that would make more sense.
I understand that Quebec issues license stickers every year for snowmobiles and ATVs similar to the ones we put on our vehicles in Ontario. This also serves as a trail permit, allowing you to access any trail in the province. I think a similar system could be adopted in Ontario, with trail maintenance and enforcement under a single "club", paid for with revenue from the yearly stickers.
My two cents...
The newly formed Lake of Bays ATV club successfully gained a 2 year trial period to allow atv travel on most of the roads, allowing access to the many trails in the area. This was no small accomplishment with 100's of hours in involved in presentations, meetings etc all by volunteers. The answer to your question is a resounding YES....
There's an active ATV club in the Sudbury area. They lobbied for, and unbelievably got permission to drive on certain highways and roadways in the Region of Subury. Now, you have to expect these characters driving up and down residential streets at all hours, down the center of paved roads, and when they do pull over and ride the shoulders they've got them so warn down the pavement is actually breaking away. Now, guess who pays to have these shoulders repaired.
Yesterday I actually watched a guy on an ATV with a snowplow drive along the center median of a 4 lane highway...no helmet.
I have a question. In North Algona/Wiberforce Township of Renfrew County just east of Deacon (off Highway 60) there is some County Forest/Crown Land that has the Pakotina Trail running through it. Last time I was hiking in there I found "no trespassing" signs put up by an ATV club.
Is this aimed at vehicles only? Can hikers still use the trail?
There's a similar issue with "no trespassing" signs on the snowmobile trail that runs through Killaloe. Can pedestrians use these trails in the off season?
If the ATV club put them up they shouldn't have. The only person that can legally post land as "no trespassing" is the legal land owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLakePete
Unless the snowmobile clubs and atv clubs own the land the signs mean nothing.
Thanks for the support frogger.I am on the executive of the Haliburton ATV CLUB and over $50,00 was spent on trail maintenance last year, the main costs being the South Lake trail from Minden out to the rail trail. These costs as well as bridge replacement, such as the new one west of Pine Springs north of Carnarvon are all possible because of membership fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
A snowmobile club can post No Trespassing signs with the authority of the landowner. They'd be acting as his agent.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Wilson
Snowmobile trails on crown land exist under the authority of a Land Use Permit and in many cases can post no access or no trespassing. There are some exceptions however for anglers, hunters, trappers etc.
I'm another one who started using many of those trails about 42 years ago, repaired them enough to get my 4x4 thru and now finds that various clubs have signed agreements with railbed, hydro line owners etc to keep me off of them.
Back when a person could get a permit I had no problems with the OFSC but then the government got involved and now the permit is for ONE machine.