ofah snubs fishncanada show

so ruducing the number of trout over coburg creek to give the Atlantic's a better chance is good for the trout fishery, the mnr should be blasted for allowing it

I think Roe, it's the failing of the net. It's very hard sometimes to convey things adequately.

There are people who would like to pull the plug. As with any bath tub, when you pull the plug, everything goes. I suspect that's really what's at risk here. To me we need to weigh everything, including the fact many rivers are experiencing great runs of Steelhead where before they were dwindling, and good returns of Pacifics that are spawning and reproducing..

sometimes its "worth" paying a celebrity to....
and the facts are prior to it,
/crickets

cheers
J

we are experiencing great runs of rainbows because of the reduced number of trout kept (limit 2 for 5 years now on bank fishermen and now lake fishermen) also it has also to due with the wet springs and summers we had 4 and 5 years ago, also our trout run is not that great we have very few 6,7,and 8 year old trout returning 2 bad years and we are right back to square one on trout. we are getting very high return rates of 4 and 5 year olds.... but a collapse is immanent (tons of data to back this up as well )

JBen,

My ex's parents lived in Bomanville in the late80's prior to moving to Peterborough just before we were married. I use to fish Bomanville, Wilmot and Graham creeks with my ex FIL. There were signs then on Wilmot Creek showing pictures of atlantic salmon smolt with a warning to release them if caught. Fast forward 25 years - where are the salmon? I know it was the MNR doing the stocking back then and OFAH has their hands in it now, but is it even viable with the methods they've been employing. I remember the hoopla when it was announced they were bringing atlantic salmon back to Lake Ontario.

Please refer to the attached link for OFAH's website http://www.bringbackthesalmon.ca/?page_id=109 showing there partners. Now obviously a few of these are corporate sponsors. While corporate sponsors undoubtedly receive a tax credit for this, they a real so looking for good PR. You work in the financial sector, how long do you think the corporate sector will keep handing out money if there are no positive results?


This is my point, they have a large group of players on their team along with funding and I suspect a limited time to get positive results. Very little in the way of positive results have come thus far. It's time to re-evaluate the program;

1. Why aren't the stocking programs working here when they work elsewhere?
2. Are they using the proper strain or is there a better strain of fish available?
3. What about habitat, food source and competition with other species?

When Chronzy spoke on this he didn't condemn it, he gave reasons.

Here's a link to the LSSU fishcam http://www.lssu.edu/arl/fishcam.php It's not operating now, but will be in the spring.

Roe+

I've read his reports and findings a few times Roe. I think after our last bout he has has eased a little from pulling the plug to maybe better utilization of hatchery space. Don't know, after numerous insults thrown my way, including insinuations that I'm an OFAH employee (on their payroll), trying to undermine me or merit of my points, which is simply weigh everything. I've given up trying to get him to see that the program is doing far more than just stocking fry. His mind is or was closed.

with the MNRs budget going in the wrong direction, we are going to need to find new ways of getting things, things done. All the classrooms full of kids learning about cold water streams, their importance to the entire region. All the tens of thousands hearing/learning about just how important they are. They are tomorrows anglers, conservationist, and tomorrow's voters.

Bowmanville dam.
took a lot of manpower and effort to have that redone. Without it, the Pacifics were having trouble getting upstream. Thousands, stuck below the dam, every year. My understanding is it cost $500k and took a lot of grassroots, both financial and sweat. A lot of media attention, a lot.

Grassroots, that prior to StA was non existent.< hard truth, people don't care. The only successful grassroots is CRAA. Funny anytime I saw media coverage of the hand bombing efforts at Bowmanville, there were dozens of people. Interest and attention that prior to StA, was utterly non existent.

They stocked Browns in Duffins this year for the first time in...
more

If and when the funds dry up, or interest runs dry, then pull the plug or change gears. For now Steelhead seem to be thriving, and Pacifics are reproducing. Odd Darryl can talk about how great the returns are on the Suageen in one breath, then go on a crusade that the As are taking all the limited hatchery space.

I think Darryl Knows his fishing and what should be done. We should go back to the bows and Chinooks and cohos. The atlantics are a waste of time other than the cleaning up of the creeks and rivers. If you ever fished the L Huron tourneys in the glory days You Know what I mean. Lots of anglers, people at the docks just to see the fish come in. It was fantastic. Sure the atlantics and browns look nice, Lakers not so much but bring on the pacifics. They survive.

Hmm, last I checked the LHFC is screaming for support, new members, the "old boys" are getting old and the young blood? Not so much.

In fact Darryl is trying hard to get renew interest, get guys to contribute $$ and sweat. So when all us old guys die off, who is going to be left? Whose going to carry the torch? If the MNRs fortunes are ever going to reverse, pray tell who is going to do it? Facts are, we all know the MNR doesn't even have the money to properly staff COs, let alone everything else we might want to see getting some loving.


Because the same old same old, hasnt and isnt working (your way). One only need look at the past 20 years. Both in terms of those who love to use the resources giving back, and those on the horizon. And last I looked at a map theres more than Georgian Bay to think about.

I personally know a number of kids who go there and learn about...every year, dozens of classrooms.
http://trca.on.ca/school-programs/fa...-field-centre/

My own girls have stocked Atlantics, planted trees. Have yours?
http://trca.on.ca/the-living-city/wa...nitiatives.dot

Brown Trout?
http://www.durhamregion.com/communit...w-brown-trout/

Classrooms rearing Atlantics?
Lots.

Long story short.
My gut tells me forest for the trees, theres looking beyond "today" and being short sighted and wondering what things might look like in 10-15 years if we dont get more grassroots, more media to various issues, more "public awareness".

I guess what I'm saying JBen is success breads success. Look at the wild turkey restoration. 100 years ago the wild turkeys became extinct in Ontario. Through the work of OFAH and others this became very successful and their range is continually spreading. People jumped on the bandwagon even if only for a short time and got involved. Business sprung up, guiding, selling equipment etc. The government saw money coming in from taxes and license fees, but as always the Liberals blew it on other things. The provincial doesn't want to give any money to the MNR for hunting and fishing, they just want to pull money out. Yes, they said there would be a separate account for licensing revenues earmarked for the MNR, but is this really the case? Are they skimming off of it? I've read in the past this pot of revenues is not enough to cover the costs. My response is; what about the taxes generated by outfitters in the form of income tax and sales taxes? Was the Bearwise program paid for out of general revenues or out of licensing fees? I don't trust the Liberals creative accounting, we've seen too much of it in the past. Sorry for drifting off topic, but it's time we as hunters and fishermen united and called our provincial government to task the same as we did the federal government over the long gun registration. United we represent a formidable voting block.

Back to the topic. If memory serves me correct the main topic is atlantic salmon restoration, not pacifics or steelhead. They educational programs etc. are good, but to get more interest they need to show some success. Admittedly, I'm not upon the habitat they require or how it affects the other species sharing it. In the St. Mary's River, they get atlantics, Chinooks pink salmon and browns (browns according to a fishing map I have). I did not hear of cohos or steelhead while I was up there. The Chinooks and pinks will run in the tributaries up there. The atlantics and Chinooks run in the St. Mary's. The atlantics run in August, the Chinooks in September. These fish seem to be able to co-habitate the same environment. The St. Mary's however is a large fast flowing river, not necessarily comparable to the Niagara River, but it does flow between 2 great lakes. Here's a few shots of the St. Mary's River where the atlantics are caught and stocked.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...M/P1000238.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...M/P1000240.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...M/P1000241.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...M/P1000247.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...M/P1000246.jpg

Anything worth doing is worth doing right. JBen, please excuse the photography my equipment and expertise is not nearly what yours is.

Roe+

Lol, please Roe (re pics..any pics are good pics) :)

Somewhat off topic, yes, but how much? And thats my primary concern, for some the primary concern is A, or S or C and the "returns". Which btw I will not argue, I quite agree. I don't even understand why
~No moratorium. Doesnt make a lot of sense to me to spend a lot of $$ and man hours doing this and more, then publicising a number of the prime locations...Might as well hang a sign saying "Atlantics and Brookies" for lunch.

~Airport lands. Some area's are within the land expropiated for that, and well, now we know its coming.

Im not sure how to word it. Other than to say "we" need to do things differently, get more bang for the few table scraps thrown our way (MNR), on that I quite agree.The same old, same old, hasn't and isn't "working".

But at the same time, having tried to a TU chapter, having spent time doing A or B. KNowing the amount of effort the Chronzeys put into things, and those with Metro East and John K with CRAA.

What price do we attach to all the education, getting kids involved, classrooms, boyscouts...All the media attention and much more.
I look at the Bowmanville dam effort (mostly grassroots)....and I wonder how much credit StA deserves.

Im not trying to convince anyone its "worth" it, or its not "worth it". Just put all the cards on the table, there's a lot more than whats on the surface (imo), including, the MNR, the Province, and the trend of the past 20 years.

J

Agreed

Roe+