8 mth Lab growling

Mine started a bit of growling at around 6 months. He was definitely trying to exert his dominance and push boundaries. During this time, he would also test us by not following simple commands, like "come" or "sit". (That could possibly be a way of figuring out if he's testing his boundaries or if there's another problem.) It took a bit of patience at times. When he started growling, it was game over -- we would stop what we were doing and say "hey" roughly, looking him right in the eyes until he backed off. Once he showed submission, he would get attention again.

It's startling when it happens -- this is your puppy, right -- but it's important to deal with it right away. You have to remain the dominant one. That said, we've been taught by trainers that if a dog gets aggressive, you grab it my the nose and bring it to the floor (without hurting, of course) until it whimpers in submission. We were taught that this would be what its mother would do. I'm sure there are several opinions out there on this method...

Is he growling and showing teeth. ears back , bristling? Or is he growling in pleasure?....I sometimes growl with pleasure, when being properly petted.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Like the dog in your avatar? LOL

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Lol. She just finished killing a groundhog and was still pretty pumped in the pic.

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Originally Posted by welsh

This is not the best way to handle the situation.

Dogs may growl for any number of reasons. Dogs even growl while playing. It is something they do to communicate and it does not necessarily indicate that they are trying to move up in the pecking order -- it is not even necessarily aggressive. Indeed, the notion that a dog will try to take over as pack leader is an invention of human psychology, which has nothing to do with the social behaviour of dogs.

There is not enough information here to say what the correct response should be. My first question would be, how much training work do you do with the dog on a daily basis?

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My experience has proven to be the opposite of yours. This is the first sign of a dog saying or by body language I am the boss. My response quickly corrects this behaviour without hurting the dog. It has work for me any many others i know. It has to be done quickly in order to correct the issue. I would not respond in the same manner as what welsh describes. I have worked with many dogs in a team and pack environment and yes a pecking order is created by the most dominant .

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Originally Posted by The Wife

Mine started a bit of growling at around 6 months. He was definitely trying to exert his dominance and push boundaries. During this time, he would also test us by not following simple commands, like "come" or "sit". (That could possibly be a way of figuring out if he's testing his boundaries or if there's another problem.) It took a bit of patience at times. When he started growling, it was game over -- we would stop what we were doing and say "hey" roughly, looking him right in the eyes until he backed off. Once he showed submission, he would get attention again.

It's startling when it happens -- this is your puppy, right -- but it's important to deal with it right away. You have to remain the dominant one. That said, we've been taught by trainers that if a dog gets aggressive, you grab it my the nose and bring it to the floor (without hurting, of course) until it whimpers in submission. We were taught that this would be what its mother would do. I'm sure there are several opinions out there on this method...

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This is a good example when to react and show who is the boss. Perfect example.

There is very big difference between a dog growling in play and an aggressive growl. I would never tolerate a dog trying to dominate or intimidate me. Thats when you grag them by the scruff and pin them down into submission.

Yes and it doesn't have to hurt them but completely catch them off guard.

I'm not up to snuff with the latest methods for training, but I've never had to get physical with any of my dogs.
Some will say dominate that biatch, and others will say you should never have to grab your dog by the scruff, or touch the dog at all. Newer methods would dictate the latter. It seems most reputable trainers do not agree with Caesar Milan's methods.

I'll be doing professional training for my first time ever (always did my own in the past) when I get a new pup and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll learn a lot.

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Originally Posted by terrym

There is very big difference between a dog growling in play and an aggressive growl. I would never tolerate a dog trying to dominate or intimidate me. Thats when you grag them by the scruff and pin them down into submission.

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Yes there is and that growl in play has a chance to turn into the real thing if you let it go on too long. I agree with The Wife and YD on this one. It's tough to know without seeing the dog but it sounds like this pup is starting to grow a pair. Make sure he knows your pair is bigger.

Edit: you don't have to put your hands on him to show him you are the boss.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I'm not up to snuff with the latest methods for training, but I've never had to get physical with any of my dogs.
Some will say dominate that biatch, and others will say you should never have to grab your dog by the scruff, or touch the dog at all. Newer methods would dictate the latter. It seems most reputable trainers do not agree with Caesar Milan's methods.

I'll be doing professional training for my first time ever (always did my own in the past) when I get a new pup and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll learn a lot.

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Ceasar Millan is the man, period. He understands the pack which is key to a well balanced, mentally stable, happy dog.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

My experience has proven to be the opposite of yours. This is the first sign of a dog saying or by body language I am the boss. My response quickly corrects this behaviour without hurting the dog. It has work for me any many others i know. It has to be done quickly in order to correct the issue. I would not respond in the same manner as what welsh describes. I have worked with many dogs in a team and pack environment and yes a pecking order is created by the most dominant .

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I'm going to be blunt. You are flat-out wrong.

Dogs form dominance hierarchies within their own packs and within informal groups. But they do not form hierarchies between dogs and humans and establishing dominance over humans is not part of their social behaviour. They do not mistake you for a dog, and they do not think you are part of their pack.

The idea that you must establish dominance over the dog is an artifact of human psychology, not of dog behaviour. This appeals to the trainer's ego, his need to establish that he is In Charge. This dominance theory was concocted by dog trainers as a way of establishing that their system of dog training was based on some scientific understanding of dog behaviour, based on the behaviour of wolf packs. But further study of the social behaviour of both wolves and dogs revealed that the social behaviour of wild wolf packs bore little resemblance to the captive wolf packs that had originally given rise to the whole "alpha wolf" thing, and even less resemblance to the behaviour of dogs.

I am not sure what you mean when you say "I would not respond in the same manner as what welsh describes," as I have not prescribed any response, but only said there is not enough information here to know what response is appropriate. To advise someone on how to deal with what he believes is an aggression problem, based on only the vaguest description of the behaviour, is simply irresponsible. Any one signal from a dog -- growling, e.g. -- is meaningless without knowing what other signals accompany it. There is no way to know if any advice will help, or make the problem worse, without knowing what is really happening.

That said, an 8-month-old dog that growls when playing is almost certainly not showing aggression. Growling is part of the normal vocabulary of dogs at play, and if it is accompanied by play-bows and other typical play behaviour, rather than agonistic displays such as teeth-baring, then it is not a sign of aggression or of "dominance." If this is the case, the dog is simply playing normally and grabbing it by the neck and rolling it onto its back while sternly correcting it is at best silly, and at worst counterproductive. If you want to train the dog to stop growling at play, the simplest approach is simply to correct it verbally and stop playing when it growls. The dog will soon learn that growling stops the fun.

As far as the dog growling, apparently at random, while being petted, this is a bit more complex and there is no way to know what is going on without knowing more. But in general, any sign of aggression in a dog is best dealt with indirectly, and not by provoking a physical contest with the dog.

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Originally Posted by welsh

I'm going to be blunt. You are flat-out wrong.

Dogs form dominance hierarchies within their own packs and within informal groups. But they do not form hierarchies between dogs and humans and establishing dominance over humans is not part of their social behaviour. They do not mistake you for a dog, and they do not think you are part of their pack.

The idea that you must establish dominance over the dog is an artifact of human psychology, not of dog behaviour. This appeals to the trainer's ego, his need to establish that he is In Charge. This dominance theory was concocted by dog trainers as a way of establishing that their system of dog training was based on some scientific understanding of dog behaviour, based on the behaviour of wolf packs. But further study of the social behaviour of both wolves and dogs revealed that the social behaviour of wild wolf packs bore little resemblance to the captive wolf packs that had originally given rise to the whole "alpha wolf" thing, and even less resemblance to the behaviour of dogs.

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Welsh you are way off on this. That answer regarding the pack and interaction between dogs and humans was written by someone who wants to discredit something they don't understand.