Don't be shootin coon hounds in Arkansas

The Ontario thread about a similar situation lasted 18 pages and got very heated so it will be very interesting to see if this thread progresses in a similar fashion.

Firstly, as far as any information I have found about this situation, I believe the landowner was way wrong (of course I am judging him on our laws and my morals). The dog wasn't bothering his livestock and the dog wasn't threatening him. He shot the dog because the dog's owner and his buddy tresspassed on this property. This was an act of vengence; not protection. People tresspassing isn't a reason to destroy that person's property.

Secondly, some of the blame for this mess has to go to the dog owner. The dog owner's lawyer says the dog owners rightfully put away their guns and then went to retrieve the dogs. The land was posted as no tresspassing. It isn't a statement which allows for conditions. You have to go and get permission from the landowner to go onto his property.

This entire thing could have been avoided I think. Perhaps visiting the landowner prior to running the hounds and asking for permission to go on the property to tree coons or even asking to be allowed to retrieve the dog if it went over the property line. Perhaps not running the hound so close to the property line or better recall training so the dog can be called off before it treed the coon. The landowner's property certainly wasn't being respected; however, coming into the situation as he did (angry and with a gun) certainly didn't de-escalate the situation.

Dyth

Dyth , they did try to contact the owner Dyth before they retrieved the dogs but to no avail. The guy was a nutbar . I don't think you understand hounds and how they are when hot on a track . The racket alone when they have a coon treed is almost deafening so they wouldn't hear a recall command . They get so wound up it would be like trying to stop a racehorse in mid stride .

TD

We yell and scream,a lot,over people trespassing and we,also,have laws against it,but,we need to understand that trespassing anywhere in the US is regarded differently than it is here. Fully 90% of the total landmass of the lower 48 states is private property and the owners DO NOT mean,maybe. I know in New York state,trespassing fines are HUGE and if you manage to get your butt shot at,that's just tough bananas. Just hope the farmer's a lousy shot.

The hound had been retrieved and was leashed when the land owner basically executed it. He then demanded that the other hound which was already crated in a vehicle be taken out to be executed also. I can't believe there wasn't a loss of human life in this. I would say the landowner is alive only because he was the only one armed at the time.

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Dyth , they did try to contact the owner Dyth before they retrieved the dogs but to no avail. The guy was a nutbar . I don't think you understand hounds and how they are when hot on a track . The racket alone when they have a coon treed is almost deafening so they wouldn't hear a recall command . They get so wound up it would be like trying to stop a racehorse in mid stride .

TD

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400bigbear,

Can you please send me a link where it states they tried to contact the landowner? Any information I have looked at says there was no number posted to contact the landowner. I agree the landowner was a nutbar and I am not giving him a free pass to shoot the hounds. While I haven't run with many hounds (a couple of deer hunts), the hounds going onto posted private property doesn't give the hound owner permission to tresspass to retrieve the hounds unless he talks to the landowner first. I understand how a pack can get away from a person but that person is still responsible for his hounds is he not? He still needs to try to respect other people's boundaries. You say the racket alone when they tree a coon is deafening, why not stop them before they get wound up? We aren't talking about coyote hounds here where they run for miles, these are coon hounds.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

The Ontario thread about a similar situation lasted 18 pages and got very heated so it will be very interesting to see if this thread progresses in a similar fashion.

Firstly, as far as any information I have found about this situation, I believe the landowner was way wrong (of course I am judging him on our laws and my morals). The dog wasn't bothering his livestock and the dog wasn't threatening him. He shot the dog because the dog's owner and his buddy tresspassed on this property. This was an act of vengence; not protection. People tresspassing isn't a reason to destroy that person's property.

Secondly, some of the blame for this mess has to go to the dog owner. The dog owner's lawyer says the dog owners rightfully put away their guns and then went to retrieve the dogs. The land was posted as no tresspassing. It isn't a statement which allows for conditions. You have to go and get permission from the landowner to go onto his property.

This entire thing could have been avoided I think. Perhaps visiting the landowner prior to running the hounds and asking for permission to go on the property to tree coons or even asking to be allowed to retrieve the dog if it went over the property line. Perhaps not running the hound so close to the property line or better recall training so the dog can be called off before it treed the coon. The landowner's property certainly wasn't being respected; however, coming into the situation as he did (angry and with a gun) certainly didn't de-escalate the situation.

Dyth

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i can can see you have never hunted coon hounds , I've only owned one out of many that you could call out of the woods and once he was started on a coon you waited till he treed , coon dogs aren't breed for obedience , once that leash I'd unsnapped they go hunting and you get them when they tree , and I've hunted with hounds that can cover a mile in short order, it's just the nature of the game .

im very surprised that someone didn't die over this as the hound culture in the south is much different then here , someone posted about Lawson's dog earlier in the thread and yes he was paid for a dog shot , I remember another good young hound shot off a tree a number of years back when a new house was built in a bush by someone who had spent most of his life in the city , the hound went about 2 miles before coming treed in the bush in question and the new resident who was awakened and scared by the barking went out and shot the dog off the tree , the hunter got there minutes late and ended up having to shoot his hound with his .22 as it was laying there wounded , the police were called and charges laid , the dog was paid for by the landowner , a poor situation for sure

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Originally Posted by trappermatt

i can can see you have never hunted coon hounds , I've only owned one out of many that you could call out of the woods and once he was started on a coon you waited till he treed , coon dogs aren't breed for obedience , once that leash I'd unsnapped they go hunting and you get them when they tree , and I've hunted with hounds that can cover a mile in short order, it's just the nature of the game .

im very surprised that someone didn't die over this as the hound culture in the south is much different then here , someone posted about Lawson's dog earlier in the thread and yes he was paid for a dog shot , I remember another good young hound shot off a tree a number of years back when a new house was built in a bush by someone who had spent most of his life in the city , the hound went about 2 miles before coming treed in the bush in question and the new resident who was awakened and scared by the barking went out and shot the dog off the tree , the hunter got there minutes late and ended up having to shoot his hound with his .22 as it was laying there wounded , the police were called and charges laid , the dog was paid for by the landowner , a poor situation for sure

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Then I stand corrected. While finding a hound on a landowner's property doesn't give that landowner license to shoot the hound, having a hound cross into another's property doesn't give the hound owner carte blanche to retrieve the hound especially when the land is posted no tresspassing.

Dyth

They do the exact same thing, can run for miles. The hound picked up the track, followed it down the river bank. then followed the track across the river onto the land owners property where he treed the coon. I believe part of the defense was the land owner was baiting deer with corn, which is like a magnet to coons and naturally the coon crossed the river to feed, hense the dog followed the track. A coon hound can take a track and follow it no differently than a hound that is used to run deer or coyotes, so saying there is a difference in the distance one can travel over the other two is not valid...

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Then I stand corrected. While finding a hound on a landowner's property doesn't give that landowner license to shoot the hound, having a hound cross into another's property doesn't give the hound owner carte blanche to retrieve the hound especially when the land is posted no tresspassing.

Dyth

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Im im not saying it does , and I've been involved in trying to cut hounds off and catch them before they got somewhere they shouldn't be , weather it's posted land or a highway , some states have different laws regarding free casting and retrieval of hounds as well

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Originally Posted by trappermatt

Im im not saying it does , and I've been involved in trying to cut hounds off and catch them before they got somewhere they shouldn't be , weather it's posted land or a highway , some states have different laws regarding free casting and retrieval of hounds as well

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trappermatt,

All I am trying to say is while the landowner was defineatley in the wrong for shooting the hound and acting the way he did, the hound owners weren't 100% innocent of wrong doing either. Here is a link which provides a bit more information: http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/News/...152013042650PM. It seems the guys were from out of town and didn't know who owned the land (they should have found out before they went hunting) and Arkansas doesn't have a right to retrieve law. To me, the incident could have been avoided by doing a bit of research.

Dyth