My one ol gal broke on her first retrieve every year till I retired her at 13 . I would just tie her to something solid and she would bounce out and get checked . The rest of the season she would be rock solid .
TD
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My one ol gal broke on her first retrieve every year till I retired her at 13 . I would just tie her to something solid and she would bounce out and get checked . The rest of the season she would be rock solid .
TD
I have tied dogs to me with an 18" lead and as mentioned only had to correct the once on the first shoot and thats what it takes....just some simple reinforcement and they catch on pretty quickQuote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Invite me out hunting with you and we can take turns working our dogs.deb
Good to see a number of you have high standards when it comes to breaking and have some strategies that work for you....that's what is important.
Most comments distinguish between training and hunting. There are many dogs steady to shot in training but break on a regular basis when hunting. Be careful not to allow that to continue as it can be hard to overcome and dogs will take the punishment as long as they get the reward(the bird).
As I said previously, for those who are not absolutely steady then remind them just prior to shooting time....put them in 'training' mode.
What was not mentioned was creeping. That can be a totally different issue with dog not breaking but not remaining on sit either. It's wise in training to make this an absolute.....meaning accepting NO movement. For those who read/watch dvds, you'll see Bill Hillman steadying dogs at a very early age. This has nothing to do with retrieving and everything to do with obedience. You've heard it.....sit means sit!
Steady dogs usually mark the falls of birds more accurately.....important whether you hunt or compete. Dogs who are sitting can be helped by the handler in refining the line given for a retrieve, the creeper is pretty hard to help but I often see handlers using their hand positioned above the dogs rear end as he's sent.....guess the dog has another set of eyes there also.
Excellent advice as usual from Krakadawn. I'm no retriever trainer, but many principles of training are the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by krakadawn
We need to use a friend to help more often , so we can concentrate on the dog.
Wow thanks for all the responses folks I truly appreciate every one of them sounds like I need to plan on not shooting until I can have him steady or if going out just the dog and I then leash him to me or the blind to be sure he doesn't break.
thanks again the willingness to help amongst dog people is just awsome
Chris
I find it disturbing the constant reference of using E collars . That's not working a dog but rushing and forcing one . Retrievers have been guided missles doing what they do for a 100 years or more but this new fangled electronic has been around , how long ? 20 years maybe and closer to 10 . Yuo pros promote this crap constantly and constantly I have dogs sent to me whose drive etc has been destroyed and I have to deal with it . Yes in the right hands it can speed things up and correct things but in 90 % it is just plain f "in wrong . Words . a lead or even rocks in a beer can correct most . I'm picking up the pieces of you force e collar folks . Thanks .
TD
Hi 400 BB
i agreed with you on a lot of what you have said that in the wrong hands or used improperly it can be a bad thing but for myself I consider it a very effective tool. The number one reason I use mine is for the safety of my dog. He is almost always with me comes to work with me or wherever I go. About 2-3 times a day I let him out of the truck to take care of business a quick game of fetch or just to check out the job site/stretch his legs. This is often close to a road that he is unfamiliar with and I fear that if he makes a run for the road weather it be for another dog or an other animal/bird a shock may be the only thing between him running out on the road or not. That being said he listens well without it and this has never happened but I just feel better/more in control when he has it on. I guess it offers piece of mind for me and also in a hunting situation when he is all fired up all it takes most times is a beep and I can make him sit right beside me or at 150 yards without yelling and scaring birds off. Like you mentioned though used improperly it can destroy the drive in a good dog a buddy of mine picked up a GSP that had been mistreated the owner had a ecollar and used it out of frustration and to often when he got the dog she trembled if she even saw the collar without the collar on she is the best pointer I have hunted over but with the collar won't leave his heels really to bad to see this so I can see your point but I'm still quite glad that I have the collar like I said for me it just offers piece of mind.
Chris
No on ever said forcing, it's called reinforcing. Teach first then correct behaviour the way you would any time. An ecollar can and is a great tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Solid collar programs have been around for quite a bit more than 10 yrs...time slips by you know.
I'm not a Pro but I find it strange that people send dogs to you to correct? For what...especially if you're trying to link the ecollar to that argument. By the way 'we' are not the 'force e collar' folks as you say.
I have trained field champions without the collar, it can be done but modern day training programs and ecollars have taken dog training to a much higher level and assisted many people to do so. And as far as 'drive; go, my group of dogs are as hard a driving bunch that you can find.....so are literally most of today's competitive FT retrievers.
Rocks in beer cans are pretty ineffective at 200 yds...just like teaching a dog to slide down a shoreline without cheating etc.They may have their place but certainly not in training AA retrievers today. We haven't even talked about dog safety.
You are most welcome to be anti collar, not sure what level you train dogs at but don't damn the 'rest' who choose to avail ourselves to other training tools other than rocks in beer cans.
Big Bear....respectfully...if you believe current day collar programs force and rush a dog then you are badly informed about the valuable role they play in training, perhaps you need to spend some time with some good trainers...I'd welcome you anytime to join in