any insight

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Just a heads up for people looking for a dog from a particular breed. The only way to really tell if the breed is right for you is to spend some time around the breed and see the breed in action, preferably with someone who knows dogs. Don't believe everything you read on the internet or in magazines, especially Gundog. I cancelled my subscription a couple years ago because I found most articles about various breeds were written with very thick rose coloured glasses. As I learned more about dogs and saw more dogs in action I realized that Gundog magazine was nothing more than a bunch of pretty pictures.

A wise dog man once told me "Rare breeds are rare for a reason."

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X2 well said.

Jake's advice is spot on....especially his last statement.

You can put yourself on a slippery slope if your decision making process is based on some pictures/books that normally profess generalities to the nth degree and describe temperament as you have stated.

Consider getting out and talking to some dog people, observe their dogs, regardless if that's the breed you are after and see what exists. Then continue your search if you are breed specific; however, better see some individuals in the flesh and working. Forget the 'hero' shots that people tend to take all the time, they tell you very little.

Take a very close look at what you hunt, how you hunt, when you hunt and where you hunt in making a decision about the kind of dog that best fits your needs. You need to consider whether you will be training this animal or whether he will be sent out for training. Can you find a trainer, can you afford a trainer. Be prepared to continue to train because training is an ongoing process.

Good luck, I'm not trying to change your mind but rather put some questions in front of you so that you clearly think out your choice based on real criteria, not fiction.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

that's exactly what I am after jobber, the reserved temperament. I have been looking into the breed for roughly 2 year now, not to say that GSP cant have a reserved temperament I hunt with a really good friend quite often who had a GSP and she is fantastic and a wonderful temperament but I cant say that its a common with most, as well the BF is a much easier dog to train,especially for a newbie like myself(from what I have learned and read)

Here's another good link http://www.gundogmag.com/2010/09/23/...braque_082004/

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What's a " more reserved temperament" than a GSP? I've had 2 GSPs. Just asking as I don't know what that exactly means.

It sounds like you are looking for the right GSP

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Just a heads up for people looking for a dog from a particular breed. The only way to really tell if the breed is right for you is to spend some time around the breed and see the breed in action, preferably with someone who knows dogs. Don't believe everything you read on the internet or in magazines, especially Gundog. I cancelled my subscription a couple years ago because I found most articles about various breeds were written with very thick rose coloured glasses. As I learned more about dogs and saw more dogs in action I realized that Gundog magazine was nothing more than a bunch of pretty pictures.

A wise dog man once told me "Rare breeds are rare for a reason."

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Thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind. But the whole "rare breeds are rare for a reason" thing I don't buy into. There are a lot of factors that make a breed rare. Cost, availability, ext. I would like to see responses from those who do in deed have a rare breed such as the pointing griffon, or the brocco Italian, or the poudelpointer. Just because a dog breed is uncommon in north America does not make it a bad breed. They are very common in Europe and around the world just not here.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Jake's advice is spot on....especially his last statement.

You can put yourself on a slippery slope if your decision making process is based on some pictures/books that normally profess generalities to the nth degree and describe temperament as you have stated.

Consider getting out and talking to some dog people, observe their dogs, regardless if that's the breed you are after and see what exists. Then continue your search if you are breed specific; however, better see some individuals in the flesh and working. Forget the 'hero' shots that people tend to take all the time, they tell you very little.

Take a very close look at what you hunt, how you hunt, when you hunt and where you hunt in making a decision about the kind of dog that best fits your needs. You need to consider whether you will be training this animal or whether he will be sent out for training. Can you find a trainer, can you afford a trainer. Be prepared to continue to train because training is an ongoing process.

Good luck, I'm not trying to change your mind but rather put some questions in front of you so that you clearly think out your choice based on real criteria, not fiction.

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Again Krakadawn thanks for the advice .
So you know I have been hunting for 20 years and have hunted above many different breeds but for the most part they have always been GSP's , I have spent many summers in Italy hunting and being a field with dogs in Europe and have seen how these "RARE" breeds hunt, the whole "Rare breeds are rare for a reason" line kills me, what does that even mean. like I said earlier there are a lot of factors that make a breed rare and I'm sure cost would be a big one, labs, britts, GSP's,setters, there are thousands of breeders across north America so to the price is reasonable,it has to be there's a lot of competition, for the BF there are only 17 across north America so its a bit pricier for one, another factor is popularity, some breeds stuck and some didn't, for no other reason then then that, I know the BF are not a bad hunting breed they are extremely popular in Europe and south America.

There are so many different breeds of retrievers why is the lab so popular? It just is, for no other reason then just that, They all work just as well but only one could be the more popular. Any retrieving breed with the right trainer will be amazing. But most gravitate to the lab. Why?

As for temperament/training part yes I have been wanting a hunting dog since I started hunting 20 years ago when I use to hunt with an old family friend Paul and his champion GSP Bruno, I was at awe watching this beautiful dog work, this is not something I woke up to this morning and thought I want to get a dog,this has been 3 serious years of consideration and yes I have considered what I hunt and especially more HOW I hunt, and the BF fits the mold perfectly, as for temperament yes this dog is a bit calmer, slower moving, more responsive, and submissive, and they dont do well to harsh training methods witch is good i'm not into the e collars and ear twisting as I have seen many breeds subject to, the funny thing is I cant tell you how many people have told me be careful if you get a GSP as a first time gun dog owner they can be a bit stubborn and harder to train(I know everyone is going to have something to say about that but its true) they will take advantage of you if your not careful . Not to mention the exercise they require on a daily bases, I dont have a big yard or the time to be taking the dog on multiple walk's a day, the BF's are know for there mellow, almost lazy home life and are mid paced workaholic's in the field, and with this trait they are know for going all day, as well as being a bit smaller then the GSP in size witch is very good for me as well.
The temperament line really seem to get peoples attention, is it that strange to hear that different breeds have different temperaments and that one could almost be a bit more reserved, calm, not as energetic, slower paced?
As for training from what I gather being a newbie to owning my first gun dog the BF fits me perfect as they are very intelligent just as the GSP but minus the yelling and e collaring, and yes there is a trainer right here outside of london that I have spoken with that is quite excited to work with me and the dog and does have some experience with the BF and yes I can afford it.
I thank you all for input you have made my decision even easier. I guess I'm just one of those guys that wants to be different and I think that "rare" is a great thing,

I don't know much about much...but...think of rare breeds like trucks. Ford F150's are seen everywhere, are fairly cheap(er) then the rarer trucks like a Land Rover, Land cruiser, or a Mercedes 4x4. The latter does everything the F150's can do, but are more expensive, less common, harder to find......

I think if you want a solid dependable proven dog your choice are fairly simple....if you want to look outside of the box....your in the right direction.

I have a Pudelpointer, which suits me perfectly, not that a Brittany couldn't have done the same, at half the cost and minus the trip to Boise Idaho.

Just say'n

Don.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

Thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind. But the whole "rare breeds are rare for a reason" thing I don't buy into. There are a lot of factors that make a breed rare. Cost, availability, ext. I would like to see responses from those who do in deed have a rare breed such as the pointing griffon, or the brocco Italian, or the poudelpointer. Just because a dog breed is uncommon in north America does not make it a bad breed. They are very common in Europe and around the world just not here.

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Just a note on this - hunting in Europe and in North America can vary greatly. Not only in the type of terrain/cover, but what we consider actual hunting. I do not own a rare breed per se, but one that is not very common here in Canada. English cockers are widely popular in the UK, surpassed only by springers and labs in numbers. Even in the trial world here, cockers are so few in numbers that they do not even run in their own trials - they must compete against springers. In the US they are becoming quite popular and do run their own trials. I never seen one run before I bought mine from a kennel in Ohio. Seemed like what i was looking for based on everything I read and watched - a small dog that could get into thick cover and push out birds. For the type of hunting I do he serves me just fine. He does have shortcomings though and I'm sure for some of the hunting I do or would like to do a more common breed like a lab or setter would have. For example for late season waterfowl I do not think he would be much good. Doesn't have the coat for it and he's only 40 lbs - breaking ice would be tough for the little guy. Also long outings are not real good so if you're looking for a dog to hunt all day, he's not it. He goes balls to the wall the entire time he hunts. Yesterday we hunted for 4 hours and that was way too long. At this point in the season his conditioning is great so he did not have any issues but realistically hunting for 2 hours should have been the max. My point - in the UK their "hunting" consists of driven shoots on land where they manage bird populations. So a dog is only hunting 20-30 minutes at a time and then there are other dogs that are used to retrieve shot game. Then they may do another "drive" for 20-30 minutes. It is not uncommon for a handler to have 2 or 3 dogs - whether they be spaniels, labs or a combination of both. I think most hunting breeds that are popular here, are popular because they fit the type of hunting we do, on the type of terrain we have, in the type of environmental conditions we have. Not trying to discourage you - I love my dog and for 95% of what I do he does the job. I even have plans to trial him. Jakezilla had great advice - try your hardest to see some work (and see them just in a normal living setting). They may not be exactly what you are looking for when you see them in action.

Have you considered the Cesky Fousek?

BG...sounds like you've thought this through very well.....all the best at finding one and hope he turns out well for you. I always tell people a 'good' dog is a 'good' dog.

Just to offer some advice about training. Not sure where you saw 'harsh' methods but the ecollar can certainly be more humane than other responsive measures people use in training. Modern collars have infinite settings literally, they can be gentler than a swat to the rump if that's what is required. They offer so much in your ability to correct issues around safety or lack of effort on dog's part. Rex Carr, a retriever trainer is credited with the modern use of the ecollar, retriever training has evolved it's use such that most folks can pick up how to use it with the many printed or dvd material that is available. Twenty years ago this was not so available nor possible.