wing on a string

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

Using the wing on a string to get a dog to point and using it to lay a sent down are very different things. I hope when using a wing on a string to lay a scent for tracking you are doing it without the dog watching, remember the idea is to get the dog to use its nose. Ok now for the wing on a string for pointing dogs. I find most people who try this are first time pointing dog owners who don't have any experience with pointing dogs. It looks good right put a bird wing in front of the dog to get it to point nice easy and you can do it any where. Big no no, the wing is in plane view of the pup the pup comes over to the wing you move it you do this until the pup sees its not going to get it. Its instincts tell it to point after a little while, owner gets happy my pup is pointing. Wrong you are creating a problem here, the pup is now sight pointing. Which could lead to a problem in the field, when the pup encounters a bird in the field it wont be in the open to see and point it will be hiding in the brush, so pup will move in on bird to try and sight it to point like you showed it with the wing on a string, but we all know a bird will not let a dog get this close it will flush and now you have a flushing dog instead of a pointer. That's why experienced dog trainers say stay away from the wing on a string. Use strong flying birds hidden in brush to get pointers pointing its the best way.

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That’s all good and true.
Just as much as I wouldn’t argue people who say that no dog should be ever trained on pen raise birds – period.
The problem is, I don’t have access to a vast array of wild birds. Who really has?
So, we go to the next best thing; strong flying pen raised birds, remote launchers etc.
But let’s be realistic: Not everybody has a couple of fields behind their home and a pen nearby. There are a lots of people who have to drive more than an hour to the next game farm or any other place they can use. So squeezing in a training session or two per day (with job, family etc.) is a bit difficult to say the least.
People/dogs play in different leagues (have to work with what they have). Therefore, IMO saying wing on a string is an absolute no-no is an overgeneralization. However, the point is that guys all too often don’t understand what it really does (good and bad) and are not prepared to transition the dog to the next level thereafter.

I am currently watching the Wildrose Way training DVD series where a good example of the bird on a string method and teaching steadiness. He had six labs each with a trainer all lined up and used the bird on a string method in various ways. All these labs already had the basics down and were probably between 1 to 2 yrs old. The bird on the string focus was not bird introduction but to teach them steadiness only. It was interesting to see only one of the trained labs go after it and the trainer correcting the dog. The dog did not go after it again. He even threw bumbers and had some dogs retrieve them while the bird on the string flew around as a distraction teaching them to retrieve only what he wanted. Excellent DVD series !

I agree, there is more than one way to skin a cat however introducing issues is never a good "cat skinner". Over-use of the "wing" will assuredly create issues and sight pointing is but one.
Sharon, you're right too. I have used a white rag successfully myself.
While the German process you described may in fact still be exercised to this day, I'm betting that they have progressed far past that by now. And the reason that I say that is because finding birds is a separate application than tracking a cripple. Dogs know a cripple from a non-cripple with absolutely no ambiguity. In-other-words, competent German breeds find birds nose high AND track birds nose low.
One of the processes I have never been fond of personally is the pheasant track. It promotes working a healthy live bird with nose down, which is a recipe for disaster. Yes, I know it works on pen-raised (synthetic) situations.
The problem arises when a dog is taught (regardless of breed origin) to work with it's nose low to find birds. It is not efficient for any "pointing breed" and will only work on pen-raised birds. Actually, I've seen this fail even with pen-raised birds.
This is one tell-tale sign of a dog that is more-often-than-not found standing a wild bird as the bird makes (or has made) it's escape versus a savvy dog that points (sticks/stabs/pegs) a wild bird(s) for you to flush/shoot. It's also why so many pointing dog owners insist that their dogs work close......really close, as in within gun range. I call them flionters or is it plushers? ;)

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flionters or is it plushers? ;)

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LMAO :)

I think "flointer" has a certain ring to it....

You guys are the best!! I love that you have a sense of humour.
It keeps me sane....well, almost sane. :silly: