An indirect answer to : "Peering into my crystal-ball"

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Originally Posted by terrym

The problem is that the whole refugee thing is a political football. The ones that are coming in have been in safe countries for months and sometimes years already. Some are refusing to come to Canada because they have families and assets over seas. Not sure that really qualifies them as refugees when there are many legitimate victims with nothing but the clothes on their backs living in squalor. There were already many people in much worse conditions already in the system awaiting clearance. These people were skipped over for purely political reasons by Trudough. The other thing is we have people living in the streets here who most times were once productive tax payers who fell on hard times and many times health issues. We should make sure these people aren't living in boxes and alleys before putting up "refugees" in Toronto hotels where they complain they weren't given better accommodations. There are millions of truly desperate people who need our help and we should be helping them first. That young boy who washed up on shore shocked the world and it was spun for political gain. The truth is he was the son of a human smuggler who overloaded a boat and it went down, the left spun it ( very successfully) as Harper's fault . His parents hadn't even applied for refugee status, likely because there was good money to be made smuggling in people. Many of the refugees landing now ere not in danger. They just wanted "in" to a country with generous welfare programs. When you see people well dressed with cell phones and expensive luggage it is hard to think of them as desperate. Likely capitalizing on a chance to jump the Que. And the other thing is we are no doubt letting in extremists who have nothing but evil in mind and exposing ourselves to terror attacks. The Conservatives were managing the process intelligently and refused to turn peoples misery into political profit. Clearly they made the wrong decision. Not sure what that says about the intelligence of Canadian voters.

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You're just spewing a whole bunch of similar misguided statements, using different terminology.

Fact is, across ALL Provinces (territories are a different matter entirely) there are very strong webs of social programming available to anyone who needs it. The people who CHOOSE to be living on the streets, out of doors, are choosing to be there.

Unless criminally active, or in the midst of a violent outburst, no Canadian is turned away from soup kitchens, shelters, food banks, etc. We have hostels & hospices that rent rooms at a rate of $2 per night and offer $1 meals. We have geared to income housing for EVERYONE from ages 16-death. ANd this is all before we even get into EI, Disability and other social payments.

All those people you try to claim aren't being looked after, are, in every way a responsible society can. Some of them just choose to live aside from the system. The ONLY exception are the mentally ill who living that life alone are not capable of getting back into the system.

OM, great post.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

You're just spewing a whole bunch of similar misguided statements, using different terminology.

Fact is, across ALL Provinces (territories are a different matter entirely) there are very strong webs of social programming available to anyone who needs it. The people who CHOOSE to be living on the streets, out of doors, are choosing to be there.

Unless criminally active, or in the midst of a violent outburst, no Canadian is turned away from soup kitchens, shelters, food banks, etc. We have hostels & hospices that rent rooms at a rate of $2 per night and offer $1 meals. We have geared to income housing for EVERYONE from ages 16-death. ANd this is all before we even get into EI, Disability and other social payments.

All those people you try to claim aren't being looked after, are, in every way a responsible society can. Some of them just choose to live aside from the system. The ONLY exception are the mentally ill who living that life alone are not capable of getting back into the system.

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yes of course perfectly "sane" people choose to live on top of a sewer grate or in a tent in the Don Valley ravine in a Canadian winter. I guess they choose to have mental health issues. Perfectly reasonable to detach from society and live outdoors. Adventurers right?

There is help for them if they are 'willing'.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

There is help for them if they are 'willing'.

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Little cold, yes of course there is. Usually very well paid civil servants but if you think a person suffering mental health issues is always capable of making the right decisions then your need to contradict everything I say has poisoned your common sense. In fact I find it ironic that you the OOD liberal apologist is taking that stance and "I" the site Conservative extremist the other. I guess the progressives really don't care about the destitute unless it means jobs for "progressives".......:shy:

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Originally Posted by terrym

In fact I find it ironic that you the OOD liberal apologist is taking that stance and "I" the site Conservative extremist the other. I guess the progressives really don't care about the destitute unless it means jobs for "progressives".......:shy:

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Well, that would be real neat. If it were anywhere close to reality.

What you're in fact doing is using one group of people that you have no intention of ever helping as a convenient excuse to not help another group of people you have no intention of helping.

Canada's mentally ill have needed improved aid for about 55 years - ever since it became cool and convenient for families to ditch them in homes and hospitals and hostels and the streets post-WWII. That need drastically increased under Harpers' first term as PM, when federal funding for the homes & hospitals for the mentally ill was cut by 70% over 2 years. I think the last article i read on the matter (sometime in 2014) said something like 40ish such facilities closed nation-wide since 2000.

But, never once, during Harper's PMship or prior to the Syrian refugee crisis, do I ever remember you being such a staunch defender of their rights & needs.

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Originally Posted by Rugger

Gunner, you're confusing refugee with immigrant. I'd say it's much harder now to be accepted as an immigrant than it was 60 years ago. TomG if your grandfather showed up today with what he arrived with years ago he would be refused.

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X2
I have a good numbers of "ethnical" coworkers who are first and second generation immigrants.
You would not believe how "white" they are...
They did not leave their home countries to support a bunch of welfare refugees, but to provide a better future for their own children

The reason why we see so few white immigrants is because the bar is so high. However, what youoften see coming from thitd world countries are refugees and family of previous accepted refugees - the later are being the problem, not actually immigrants.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Well, that would be real neat. If it were anywhere close to reality.

What you're in fact doing is using one group of people that you have no intention of ever helping as a convenient excuse to not help another group of people you have no intention of helping.

Canada's mentally ill have needed improved aid for about 55 years - ever since it became cool and convenient for families to ditch them in homes and hospitals and hostels and the streets post-WWII. That need drastically increased under Harpers' first term as PM, when federal funding for the homes & hospitals for the mentally ill was cut by 70% over 2 years. I think the last article i read on the matter (sometime in 2014) said something like 40ish such facilities closed nation-wide since 2000.

But, never once, during Harper's PMship or prior to the Syrian refugee crisis, do I ever remember you being such a staunch defender of their rights & needs.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Canada's mentally ill have needed improved aid for about 55 years - ever since it became cool and convenient for families to ditch them in homes and hospitals and hostels and the streets post-WWII. That need drastically increased under Harpers' first term as PM, when federal funding for the homes & hospitals for the mentally ill was cut by 70% over 2 years. I think the last article i read on the matter (sometime in 2014) said something like 40ish such facilities closed nation-wide since 2000.
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you do realize that health care is a Provincial jurisdiction right? Also I don't remember Harper overriding the healthcare accords and reducing funding to Provinces by 70%, pretty sure he wouldn't have got back in and certainly not given a majority. In fact I think health care funding increased every year Harper was in office. Usually double the inflation rate. Now if the Provinces chose to cut services like mental health ( or vision care or physiotherapy ) the Feds have no say in that. So that would stick to McLiar and Wynnocio. How healthcare money is spent is not decided by the Feds.
As to what I think about the state of mental health today you don't know me or have a clue as to what I have seen or been exposed to. But by all means carry on.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

What you're in fact doing is using one group of people that you have no intention of ever helping as a convenient excuse to not help another group of people you have no intention of helping.
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read my post again but slowly this time. What I said is there are thousands of refugee claimants that have been kicked to the back of the line because they are not front page news and weren't useful to Trudough's political ambitions. Many of them are in far more need of aid He's the idiot who made it a campaign issue with idiotic promises that were logistically impossible and unsafe. Harper didn't start the electoral refugee quota game. Trudough did and that pretty well shows how shallow he is. Then again he is the guy who billed charities and school boards to read speaches. Sunny days......