EBR Proposal 012-8104;8105

There is no scientific rational Jben. Wildlife management is increasingly nothing but a political tool. Wildlife evolves over time. Always has and always will. Not many Sabre toothed tigers or mammoths around and I'm pretty sure primitive man didn't "mismanage" them. Canines cross breed, ducks crossbreed and I'm sure many other animals eventually do. The Algonquin wolf thing is government caving to pressure groups. No different than when Harris caved to the Shad foundation over Spring bear hunting. It is interesting Spring bear hunting is legal in both Provinces we border with. Algonquin red wolf is not a species, it's a hybrid so as long as there are wolves and coyotes it will exist.

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Originally Posted by JBen

And from hunting 47 and the Loring yards the past 5 years. I can definitely attest to and increase in dogs and a big drop in WT numbers ( Not saying the increase in dogs, is responsible for the crash in deer) but they are certainly contributing and or not helping.The fact the MNR has gutted tags the past two years, bears all that out...So um...they are so concerned about WT and Moose in the area, but want to protect dogs now? yeah, that makes sense.

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We need an answer; are the numbers, the population of WT in MWU47, now in line with the management plan for the MNR so less tags available for the cull ? If they are, hunters will have to adjust their expectations if they hunt there.

Would think Mike, that the number would or should be somewhat fluid based on "the big picture" that takes into account winters/weather, habitat change, and includes the food chain be they predators or prey, rather than static. I am hopefully assuming the MNR understands capacity.......

Meaning, if they have a static baseline number ( say X deer per sq mile). Well what happens when an underlying factor changes enough?
Eg...warmer winters not only are easier on deer herds, but might also change the habitat such that, that same area now has the capacity for more....

Heres what we do know. The past couple winters were hard on the deer, especially 2014. That spring the owner of the place we hunt (who also has a BMA) reported coming across a fair number of deer that didn't make it through the winter. Lots of Does and fawns lost. He said he also came across more sign of dog kills. The winter of 2015 was also fairly hard on them and going into the fall of 2015, what really had him concerned was a dearth of fawns. He simply wasn't seeing many. I might note he lives in the heart of the yards and gets dozens of deer in his yard ever winter/day. Last fall was brutal for hunters in the area. They have a friendly competition amongst a number of camps for bragging rights. The camp with the most deer hung for the 2 weeks of rifle win. His camp won this year.

3 deer hung.

When we were there for archery in December our group saw a total of I think it was 6 deer....We tagged one.

The past 15 years
bears have increased substantionally
Wolves have been protected
Yotes are increasing in number concurrently.
Hence why we just say dogs when we see sign or hear them.

So if looking at the knowns.
Hard winters
A lot more pressure from predators
Moose in decline
Deer in decline
Grouse and rabbits (anecdotally) in decline.

Seems to me someone isn't looking at the big picture. And subsequent to that, it is odd that a non native hybrid gets "protection" where many others don't.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Would think Mike, that the number would or should be somewhat fluid based on "the big picture" that takes into account winters/weather, habitat change, and includes the food chain be they predators or prey, rather than static. I am hopefully assuming the MNR understands capacity.....

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and that hunters also understand that not every year or even every decade will have plentiful sightings and lots of opportunities. There will also be lean years and it's not anyone's 'fault'.

Forgot to add Fox to the list of declining species (anecdotal).

No Mike I agree with that, hence why I and many others support the sudden and drastic cuts to the additional.

But it's completely illogical to add fuel to the fire by protecting dogs in the region at a time when they are in apparent serious (by numbers) decline. And gee is it completely coincidental that for the past 15 years, bears, wolves and yotes have been given a pass?

The MNR hasn't gradually reduced additional, they've gutted them. In some of the the area's from near 1,000 to zero in two years. Speaks volumes.
And thats just WTs. Grouse, Fox, Rabbits, more....

How are these animals threatened? I see more coyote/Wolf sign at our camp in wmu 49 than any other animal. This weekend I heard them howling every night.

Go ahead ban the hunt, I'll still shoot everyone I see.

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Originally Posted by SongDog

How are these animals threatened? I see more coyote/Wolf sign at our camp in wmu 49 than any other animal. This weekend I heard them howling every night.

Go ahead ban the hunt, I'll still shoot everyone I see.

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SSssssshhhhh !!!!!!

This just will increase the SSS mentality! Hunters are the best 'biologists'. We spend more time in the field and see what's really going on. Let's continue to manage to protect the balance!

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Originally Posted by rippin_355

We spend more time in the field and see what's really going on. Let's continue to manage to protect the balance!

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Most hunters spend a maybe week in the bush....most of it sitting in the camp telling stories...LOL...

Brings to mind the idiom.."The Fox guarding the Hen House" :)

I think you're wrong. I am an outdoorsmen. I hunt, fish, hike, forage and explore. I think there are many like me who don't just drink beer at deer camp once a year.

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