Old Dog Needs New Tricks?

If you're used to using Black powder and want to switch to a cleaner 'substitute' powder like Pyrodex, be aware, by actual weight, it is not the same. 100 grains measured by volume of Goex FFg is about 101.3 grains by weight. 100 grains measured by volume of Pyrodex RS is about 72.5 grains by weight. So you would have to play around on the range to figure it out. By the By...90 grs of Goex may actually be on the heavy side.

Most guys use pellets for the convenience, but I find loose powder will give you better accuracy with 80-90 grs of Triple 7.

I used to do the dogging for the camp (ohh to be young again) and I hated having a scope on it...never trusted that it didn't take a whack and that it would be holding zero. So I stuck with open sights, but as I got older and the eye sight began to wane and I could not longer focus on the rear iron sight, so I was forced to put on a scope.

Small shotgun scopes work well, as Big Jack mentioned, they are built to take a kicking. I also found Red Dots, which I prefer for fast target acquisition, are great for bush hunting, but have to be monitored to ensure they are holding their zero.

As far a bullets....I like a heavy (300+ gr), soft lead bullet for short range shooting. Prefer to have max energy expended in the body cavity and not too concerned about an exit wound. Most deer I've hit drop where they were standing or within sight. Never been an issue in 20 yrs.

A new gun...ML's aren't a huge investment, a lot of them they go on sale regulatory for around $300 and will hit MOA at 100 yrds out of the box. Great for short range hunting. Maybe a change would help with your confidence, which is very important when you see that 'Rack' in front of you.

Folks,

I really appreciate the wisdom and experience being shared with me. I had no idea that 90 grains might be considered heavy when I see folks dropping 3 pyrodex pills down the barrel.

It sounds like I should be scoping out the old 'Black Diamond'. I have another ML (old TC White Mountain) which is a stubby little gun and easy to carry in the bush. Maybe I'll do the two-gun method and drag the White Mountain through the bush and keep the scoped unit for stand hunting. Or maybe I'll make some room in the safe and add another to the fleet (any recommendations in the low price end?).

I'll also try a heavier bullet. Sorry, but I'm going to dumb it down and see if I understand. Heavier means it will drop faster at long distance but pack more punch inside the 100 yard line? Correct me if that doesn't make sense. If that's the case, I should have switched years ago. I'm a bow hunter at heart and don't lift the gun if its out past 100 yards.

Many thanks again!

Ben

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Originally Posted by benjhind

I really appreciate the wisdom and experience being shared with me. I had no idea that 90 grains might be considered heavy when I see folks dropping 3 pyrodex pills down the barrel.

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Hey Ben....most people I know who still use Goex are using flint/side locks and most of them have found their sweet spot in around 60 grs. Black powder is known not to burn completely, even with their longer barrels. In most cases a lot of the powder load comes out the end un-burnt.

The guys using 3 pellets (if there are 50's) are not only going against Hodgden Load Warnings, they're also wasting a lot of powder. Again in the shorter in-lines ML's, a lot of powder is left un-burnt and get's spit out the end.

I bought a .58 cal Musketoon this spring and will be using Goex powder and a 495gr Conical for the hunt this Dec. I'm not expecting an exit wound, but also not expecting to need one :)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...pstjqrlzmx.jpg

Mike, I am going to have to disagree with you about the unburnt powder. Black powder, pyrodex and t7 are really "dirty" powders and what comes out the end of the barrel is nothing more than residue. I have had numerous side locks and find that 85-90 grains is a great load and a good place to start in load development. That's just my opinion and nothing more, no disrespect intended.

Oh no problem...I questioned it too when we started shooting T-7 and were working up loads. I had read that if you put a bed sheet out in front of your shooting position you could see how much was being blown out. So we did. Sure enough once we approached the 100gr (volume) the amount of powder/residue (stuff not converted to gas) landing on the sheet increased greatly.

Randy Wakeman wrote;

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In black powder the fuel is carbon; we are just burning charcoal. Black powder is horribly inefficient, as only about 50% of its mass turns into gas. The rest is solid residue that is forced out the muzzle as white smoke or left in the bore as corrosive fouling crud.

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In the same article he makes the point about the 'residue'

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Second, as we previously mentioned, roughly half of the carbon-based propellant mass is left behind as solid residue. This inert residue must necessarily be pushed out of the bore by gas. From a recoil standpoint, this solid unburned residue is considered part of the ejecta. Approximately half of the carbon-based powder charge can be added to the bullet and sabot weight to calculate free recoil. With Accurate Arms 5744, there is no such mass of fouling, as virtually all the propellant converts to gas. Therefore, there is much less weight of additional ejecta to push out the barrel, and less recoil as a result.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/difference_black_powders.htm

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Which all makes sense..there is diminished returns on anything...much to the chagrin of the 'magnum' crowds belief system :)

Just saying for folks who read you post Mike, 5744 is not a black powder or substitute. It will blow a bp ML to pieces if you use it....

It is smokeless and I know you know this but somebody might misinterpret your post.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Just saying for folks who read you post Mike, 5744 is not a black powder or substitute.

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Thanks for the heads up Jack.....it's noted and explained in the link to the article, used for comparison....but I should have not used it I guess out of context. Good point.

Again, great information and article! To be clear, my friends using 3 pyrodex pellets are shooting TC Encores, which I see the article specifically names as being tested for that load.

I should also add triple seven to the list of things I need to try. I might even have a part-can in the gun cabinet (I got a bunch of powder from someone getting out of muzzleloading). My old TC White Mountain is a side lock, is there a reason why I would use Goex in it over Triple Seven @MikePal, noting your comment?

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Originally Posted by benjhind

Again, great information and article! To be clear, my friends using 3 pyrodex pellets are shooting TC Encores, which I see the article specifically names as being tested for that load.

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I agree..I have seen the same specs, but is there really any gain or need ..a small gain in velocity for a loss of accuracy, especially for short range shooting?

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Originally Posted by benjhind

My old TC White Mountain is a side lock, is there a reason why I would use Goex in it over Triple Seven @MikePal, noting your comment?

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My Musketoon will not ignite T-7 or Pyrodex. The musket cap doesn't seem to have enough spark. Works great with Goex FFg though.

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Originally Posted by benjhind

Again, great information and article! To be clear, my friends using 3 pyrodex pellets are shooting TC Encores, which I see the article specifically names as being tested for that load.

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A fellow I know recently got into hunting with a muzzle-loader and bought a TC Encore. He started out with 3 pyrodex pellets on the recommendation of the salesman. After sighting in, he wasn't overly satisfied with the accuracy but figured that it was probably a muzzle-loader thing, the best that could be expected. He managed to get a shot at a deer that fall and was very lucky to kill it, as the shot placement was not good. In addition to the deer he got himself a nice "magnum eyebrow". I would guess the poor hit was probably a result of the flinch he developed while sighting in. He now shoots with 2 pellets and has noticed a big drop in recoil and a big increase in accuracy.

While the capability to shoot magnum loads probably sells more guns, 99% of hunters in this province probably don't need it.