Glyphosate (RoundUp or similar)

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

It doesn't work on Japanese Knotweed.....if that is your problem.

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Tell me about it. I spent 10 years fighting that stuff. I even used the super concentrate without being diluted. It was like fertilizer for that stuff. You need to pull the clumps and keep pulling the shoots as they come up. Eventually it will get too weak to survive the winter.

I found that 2,4,D was better than roundup, but you had to spray and then NOT pull the plant until it had a few days to be absorbed. Takes about ten years to eradicate a healthy patch....starting by removing all visible root clumps with a small back hoe. Then cutting/pulling all shoots as they emerge for a few years. THEN you can spray with results....
In England an offer to purchase often contains the stipulation that no knotweed is found on the premises...
The only good thing about it is that the bees love the flowers in Sept, even our chickens won't touch it....

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Originally Posted by Splaker

Got a lot of things I need to kill.. the problem is, cutting them down doesn't go far enough... I've researched it and herbicides need to be sprayed on stumps. Everything I want to kill suckers... Box elders, Lilacs..etc... i cut them and it' sprouts back up again! even grounding stumps won't get em all... Lilacs are a real PIA.. Don't understand why they are so popular... they look nice for 5 days then look like crap rest of they year and the sucker though my interlock, patio, everywhere...

got to befriend a farmer who'd sell me a few gallons of th really strong stuff.. anyone? or I could go to the US. I think they sell the 50% stuff

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PM sent .I will get you fixed up.

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

I found that 2,4,D was better than roundup, but you had to spray and then NOT pull the plant until it had a few days to be absorbed. Takes about ten years to eradicate a healthy patch....starting by removing all visible root clumps with a small back hoe. Then cutting/pulling all shoots as they emerge for a few years. THEN you can spray with results....
In England an offer to purchase often contains the stipulation that no knotweed is found on the premises...
The only good thing about it is that the bees love the flowers in Sept, even our chickens won't touch it....

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I had about 70' of it as a "fence", even though there was a 4' fence behind it. At first i left it alone and cut the stalks down with pruning shears. Year 2 saw my wife giving me dirty looks as i pulled out the chainsaw. It took me 2 pickup loads to get rid of them every fall. After a few years, the war was on. I moved there in the fall of '97. I started attacking it in the early 2000s. I still find the odd sucker coming up. Im sure if i left it alone, it would come back 15 years after i started eradicating it.

I pulled out the clumps with a shovel at first, then graduated to a mini excavator. Those suckers are tough to pull out.

Also think you can buy the 50% mixture in Quebec.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

An old farmer friend [now long gone] used to make his own weed/vegetation killer by mixing Gillets Lye, Salt and Strong Vinegar, this concoction killed every thing.
I do not know what ratio he used, but I do know his fence lines were always clear of any type of vegetation.

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A lot of those old farmers use to make up these cocktails are no longer with us. Unfortunately many of them died because of that very reason from over exposure to a variety of chemicals and wearing no personal protective equipment and mixing a little bit of this and that together.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

A lot of those old farmers use to make up these cocktails are no longer with us. Unfortunately many of them died because of that very reason from over exposure to a variety of chemicals and wearing no personal protective equipment and mixing a little bit of this and that together.

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This fellow lived well into his eighties.

A lot of those old time mixtures were a lot safer than what is sold now, chemicals that you have to be licensed for to be able to apply, and also warned to wash immediately after use and to wash your clothing, or wear protective clothing while applying, and to wear masks so you don't breath in the fumes.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

An old farmer friend [now long gone] used to make his own weed/vegetation killer by mixing Gillets Lye, Salt and Strong Vinegar, this concoction killed every thing.
I do not know what ratio he used, but I do know his fence lines were always clear of any type of vegetation.

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Lye chemically is Sodium Hydroxide and is a strong alkali. Vinegar chemically is acetic acid and is a weak acid. Combine the two in the correct ratio and you produce water and sodium acetate. Sodium acetate is commonly known as vinegar salt and is a type of salt. So if the ratios were correct your friend would have been making a water based solution containing sodium acetate salt and regular sodium chloride salt if he was also adding normal salt. Sodium based salts are toxic to plants if enough is applied. If the ratios were not balanced properly he would have been making either an alkali (too much lye) salt solution or acid (too much vinegar) salt solution. These would also be toxic to plants but effectiveness might be variable depending on the ratios used. These type of solutions work pretty well for young annual weeds but have trouble with larger mature plants and perennial weeds.

Interestingly the short term toxicity of vinegar to humans is higher than glyphosphate. In other words less vinegar is needed to kill someone than glyphosphate if it is done in one dose. As for chronic exposure at low doses I suspect the glyphosphate is more toxic.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Lye chemically is Sodium Hydroxide and is a strong alkali. Vinegar chemically is acetic acid and is a weak acid. Combine the two in the correct ratio and you produce water and sodium acetate. Sodium acetate is commonly known as vinegar salt and is a type of salt. So if the ratios were correct your friend would have been making a water based solution containing sodium acetate salt and regular sodium chloride salt if he was also adding normal salt. Sodium based salts are toxic to plants if enough is applied. If the ratios were not balanced properly he would have been making either an alkali (too much lye) salt solution or acid (too much vinegar) salt solution. These would also be toxic to plants but effectiveness might be variable depending on the ratios used. These type of solutions work pretty well for young annual weeds but have trouble with larger mature plants and perennial weeds.

Interestingly the short term toxicity of vinegar to humans is higher than glyphosphate. In other words less vinegar is needed to kill someone than glyphosphate if it is done in one dose. As for chronic exposure at low doses I suspect the glyphosphate is more toxic.

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This is all I could find about Vinegar;

Section 1: Product and Company Identification
Vinegar
Synonyms/General Names: Acetic acid, Ethanoic acid.
Product Use: For educational use only. Not for human consumption.
Manufacturer: Various
24 Hour Emergency Information Telephone Numbers
CHEMTREC (USA): 800-424-9300 CANUTEC (Canada): 613-424-6666
ScholAR Chemistry; 5100 W. Henrietta Rd, Rochester, NY 14586; (866) 260-0501; www.Scholarchemistry.com
Section 2: Hazards Identification
Clear, colorless solution with a strong vinegar odor. HMIS (0 to 4)
CAUTION! Body tissue irritant and slightly toxic by ingestion. Not for human consumption
Target organs: Respiratory system, eyes, skin, teeth.
This material is considered hazardous by the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200)
What harmful effects does vinegar have on the human body?
EDIT
Answer by Meg harebottle CONFIDENCE VOTES 7
I have heard it damages mucous linings and red blood cells. Not sure of research proof.

Chemical poisoning -- acetic acid: Introduction

Chemical poisoning -- acetic acid: Acetic acid is a chemical used for medicinal purposes such as superficial ear infections, jellyfish stings and bladder irrigation. Acetic acid is a also a component of vinegar which is used as a cooking ingredient. The type and severity of symptoms varies depending on the amount of chemical involved and the nature of the exposure. More detailed information about the symptoms, causes, and treatments of Chemical poisoning -- acetic acid is available below.

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Interestingly the short term toxicity of vinegar to humans is higher than glyphosphate. In other words less vinegar is needed to kill someone than glyphosphate if it is done in one dose. As for chronic exposure at low doses I suspect the glyphosphate is more toxic.

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Not being argumentative here but, just asking for more info.
How is vinegar higher in toxicity to humans?
Vinegar is used in food stuffs , salad dressings, in preserving of food, pickling and such.
I would think that you would have to ingest a very large amount for it to be toxic, which normally a person would not do.

What would "fish and chips " be without vinegar, or a " salad " without a vinegar and oil dressing ?

And here is more;Balsamic Vinegar -- A Luscious Elixir | The Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cary-k...b_2041397.html

DIY: Apple Cider Vinegar Tonic To Cure Bloating & Inflammation ...

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-13787...lammation.html

Apple Cider Vinegar Drink Recipe - Basic Tonic • The Healthy Eating Site

thehealthyeatingsite.com/apple-cider-vinegar-drink-recipe-basic-tonic

and there are many many more