Loaded Firearm or not?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

As spcamno quoted...you have to remember that the Firearms Act trumps the Hunting regs if it comes to charges being laid in accordance with the 'Storage and Transport' laws.

I have for years worked under the auspice of the Hunting Regs, ie; using the "AND" word in it's definition of loaded . ergo..I remove the primer rendering the gun unloaded and leave the projectile in the barrel while hunting during the ML week.

However I was informed that it is the Firearms Act that covers the laws of 'Transport and Storage'..ie once you have gotten home. Therefore the definition 'unloaded' in the act is the legal requirement and it requires you to remove the projectile from the chamber.

The legal argument could be made that if they allow you to remove the primer to take the gun into your truck to go from one spot to another while hunting...and that is considered 'unloaded' ....what has changed at the end of the day when you take the gun home.

Like I said. I haven't heard of this being challenged in court, so until then....hope you don't need a lawyer to find out the answer to your question.

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In regards to your second-last paragraph, what has changed is that you are no longer hunting.

The exemption in the transport regulations explicitly applies when transporting between hunting sites. Travelling home at night would not seem to fit that description, so it would seem the exemption does not apply, and the muzzleloader should be unloaded.

Likely it would have to be unloaded for overnight storage at home anyway, unless you are headed to a hunt camp in the 'wilderness', or you live in a location where you are already legally allowed to have a loaded firearm for pest/animal control temporarily stored in your house.

I think, like the target shooting from the boat issue, that it would be up to the CO/OPP/RCMP officer's discretion at the time, and, like you said, maybe the courts for a true answer.

That's how I read it anyways.

You people are over analyzing this one......... No percussion cap or primer in the barrel the gun is unloaded.....period. You can have a charge and projectile in the barrel no problem.
If a CO checks me I'm legal.
Hunting regs are already complex enough without trying to make them more difficult. Give your head a shake!!

Willy

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Originally Posted by willy9889

You people are over analyzing this one......... No percussion cap or primer in the barrel the gun is unloaded.....period. You can have a charge and projectile in the barrel no problem.
If a CO checks me I'm legal.
Hunting regs are already complex enough without trying to make them more difficult. Give your head a shake!!

Willy

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You are correct, in the context of hunting. Once you are no longer hunting, but transporting or storing your firearm, it must be unloaded as Mike and others have said. Firearms Act trumps FWCA....

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Originally Posted by willy9889

You people are over analyzing this one......... No percussion cap or primer in the barrel the gun is unloaded.....period. You can have a charge and projectile in the barrel no problem.
If a CO checks me I'm legal.
Hunting regs are already complex enough without trying to make them more difficult. Give your head a shake!!

Willy

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By-law, Provincial hunting, Federal firearms, etc, etc, etc, there are many different levels of law that all seem to build in a different set of rules that do not always coincide, even though a CO may say you are legal does not mean you are not going against a lot of other laws.

I know bugger all about M/L's,but,under what circumstances could one discharge without a cap on the nipple? Is there a possibility a rifle could discharge from an external source,either in transit or in storage at home?

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Is there a possibility a rifle could discharge from an external source,either in transit or in storage at home?

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Nope...when you take the primer out it's equivalent to carrying a Rifle Cartridge...bullet/powder /casing....hanlde it like you would basic ammunition.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I know bugger all about M/L's,but,under what circumstances could one discharge without a cap on the nipple? Is there a possibility a rifle could discharge from an external source,either in transit or in storage at home?

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A rifle is loaded with ammunition in the magazine, not just in the chamber and in that case the rifle is considered loaded by all of the law makers, no way can it fire without being chambered but it is still considered loaded.

I think the main point of the unloaded is to allow people to go from spot to spot in a vehicle within legal shooting hours and nothing more.

Hate the idea of pissing away a two or three dollar bullet every time I leave the bush.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Hate the idea of pissing away a two or three dollar bullet every time I leave the bush.

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Do you have an open breech gun? You can push the bullet out from the back and use it.

I want to get into muzzle loader but I have been looking into the components, it is like shooting 338 Lapua, how can they justify $3/bullet and $1 for powder, I thought it was supposed to be a cheap sport to shoot, maybe I need to get one with the proper twist for round balls.

I usually hunt with much cheaper bullets....an average 350 gr lead sabot/conical from PR bullets is about $12 (on sale) for 12...$1.00 each....but it stills galls me to be wasteful. I'll continue to take out the primer and consider it unloaded. The laws are far to convoluted in regard to ML's , any lawyer should be able to get it thrown out of court...or until a judge tells me differently.

I tried unloading it thru the breach once and the breech plug anti seize mixes with the powder it made a real mess...the threads had to be cleaned inside the barrel etc. The powder also has to be thrown out as it is contaminated etc..so no thanks, that is no longer an option.

If I have to clear the barrel.....I'll spend the $1.50 (incl powder) and make smoke :)