Right Wrong Or indifferent

That is true.
It does not change the facts.....They do not have the mandate.

And another fact, no matter the topic, issue. The next admin can repeal it. Whether that’s a registry, taxation or capital punishment.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Based on the the recent move that the Federal Government has made with regard to banning certain firearms, and their variants, I can offer the following comments / observations.

This is not about crime reduction. This is about optics. The information about gun crime has been readily available to policy makers. Its analysis is quite easy to perform.

The hue and cry from gun owners which came immediately following the news was not unexpected, nor was it counter to what anyone expected the narrative to be. What is disappointing, is just that...it is the same as it always has been.

There is a very large group of legal, lawful gun owners in this country. By extension we are also the most law abiding and aware portion of the public.

We need to change the narrative.

Arguing from a "Yeah, but..", or the "but what about...?" Is juvenile, and pedantic. The "No Compromise" narrative on some of the more militant groups ( NFA) is another which can be viewed as counter productive.

We need to have discussions around what gun ownership looks like. We need to develop awareness and understanding, and bring that forward. Our gun lobby had an opportunity post NS incident to get out in front, and make a statement in absence of any other info coming from the RCMP and the Feds. *crickets*.

We can all agree gun ownership in Canada will never look like it does in the US ( we don't have it as a guaranteed right for one). We also can't seek it. As the gun culture in the US is the main reason for illegal gun crime in Canada.

The conversation needs to change.

I have a saying I learned years ago, and it applies well:

"If you can't defend your position effectively, you need to change, or abandon your position".

This doesn't mean give up, but in the vernacular of the Army, a flanking maneuver will often succeed where a direct assault will not.

We as gun owners have been so focused on the direct "assaults" that we are being flanked, and outflanked. Still we focus on loopholes, and banking on a firearms system that catches some things, but then rejoice when an FRT # is given to a variant. We need to flip the script.

We are better than the juvenile whining that is taking place across social media platforms, let's start by acting like it.

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Agree with all the above but as much as sensible gun owners might try to change the narrative I believe the cranky, angry minority will continue to dominate the discussion with rallying cries of "No Compromise - No Compliance" and making inflammatory and inaccurate protestations about democracy, rights and other related gibberish. The Liberals and antis have and will continue to hold up the minority as representative of all gun owners.

Before we can change the public narrative we would have to clean up our own house and purge the ranks of gun owners of some very unsavoury elements. A quick visit to the on-line sewer called Canadian Gunnutz and it quickly becomes evident that it's a formidable task. For every 10 sensible gun owners in Canada there's a Gunputz screaming "Molon Labe."

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Agree with all the above but as much as sensible gun owners might try to change the narrative I believe the cranky, angry minority will continue to dominate the discussion with rallying cries of "No Compromise - No Compliance" and making inflammatory and inaccurate protestations about democracy, rights and other related gibberish. The Liberals and antis have and will continue to hold up the minority as representative of all gun owners.

Before we can change the public narrative we would have to clean up our own house and purge the ranks of gun owners of some very unsavoury elements. A quick visit to the on-line sewer called Canadian Gunnutz and it quickly becomes evident that it's a formidable task. For every 10 sensible gun owners in Canada there's a Gunputz screaming "Molon Labe."

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“Online Sewer” ???? You have just called many good people excrement. Hey if you fantasize about licking Tru-dough clean that’s your right but soon you will have less of those rights too under that crooked liar.

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Originally Posted by terrym

“Online Sewer” ???? You have just called many good people excrement. Hey if you fantasize about licking Tru-dough clean that’s your right but soon you will less if those rights too under that crooked liar.

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Wade in..

There are a lot of gun owners with zero maturity.

Remember, the only real check in getting your PAL is having kept your nose clean.

Many of whom do the pro-gun side no service by not being capable of intelligent discourse, nor being able to differentiate that we have a Charter, whereas the US has a Constitution, and the two documents aren't the same.

Many more people don’t have the maturity to consume alcohol or drive automobiles safely. I personally know 2 people who were killed by drunk drivers a cousin and a guy I went to school with. If it’s really about saving lives ( which everybody knows it’s not) then alcohol sales need to be shut down immediately. Virtue signalling by a corrupt Administration who don’t have the balls to debate this in the house. Trudough fired a Justice minister who wouldn’t collaborate in absolving SNC who were on record of buying prostitutes for Kadaffi’s son. Trudough endorses that behaviour by assisting them. This government is inept and corrupt. This will only get worse.

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Originally Posted by terrym

“Online Sewer” ???? You have just called many good people excrement. Hey if you fantasize about licking Tru-dough clean that’s your right but soon you will have less of those rights too under that crooked liar.

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Online sewer is a good description of a site that tolerates homophobic, misogynist, islamaphobic, racist opinions and turns a blind eye to posts promoting illegal activity.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Many more people don’t have the maturity to consume alcohol or drive automobiles safely. I personally know 2 people who were killed by drunk drivers a cousin and a guy I went to school with. If it’s really about saving lives ( which everybody knows it’s not) then alcohol sales need to be shut down immediately. Virtue signalling by a corrupt Administration who don’t have the balls to debate this in the house. Trudough fired a Justice minister who wouldn’t collaborate in absolving SNC who were on record of buying prostitutes for Kadaffi’s son. Trudough endorses that behaviour by assisting them. This government is inept and corrupt. This will only get worse.

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Terry, I value our discussions. I do.

It is precisely the "What about drinking and driving" that I'm talking about. It's a poor position to argue from, and it devalues the gun debate when it's brought into it. We tend to pounce on deflection when an opposing viewpoint uses it for the same reasons.

One difference. The only similarity in guns and cars is that you need a license to operate them. The Canadian public regards automobile transport as an essential, to daily life. Gun ownership is not regarded as such. And unless you're in James Bay, hunting for sustenance, the argument falls flat on its face based on that premise.

This is what I'm saying.....same old arguments.....same old outcomes.

Isn’t that always a problem. BBD? Whether the topic is hunting and poaching, angling and hooligans, or Covid and Social Distancing. It’s always the few.

I won’t say much on this turn than how is classifying a group as cavemen, any different than classifying all immigrants as terrorist. Or people who object to irregular immigrants as xenophobic. They too, are allowed their opinions.

Your very astute post said we need to change our approach. Find different ways to make our case. It always cuts both ways....

For me, we know “what the problem” is. Soft on crime policy and law enforcement.
Gun smuggling, drug smuggling. Organized Crime. We can even include human trafficking as another big, growing problem.

Perhaps if we can convince the moderates, and even some dyed in the wool antis, to scream more about that, than bans. They would do better jobs, and spend less time, money and resources on a distraction from the issues and their own failings.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Isn’t that always a problem. BBD? Whether the topic is hunting and poaching, angling and hooligans, or Covid and Social Distancing. It’s always the few.

I won’t say much on this turn than how is classifying a group as cavemen, any different than classifying all immigrants as terrorist. Or people who object to irregular immigrants as xenophobic.

Your very astute post said we need to change our approach. Find different ways to make our case. It always cuts both ways....

For me, we know “what the problem” is. Soft on crime policy and law enforcement.
Gun smuggling, drug smuggling. Organized Crime. We can even include human trafficking as another big, growing problem.

Perhaps if we can convince the moderates, and even some dyed in the wool antis, to scream more about that, than bans. They would do better jobs, and spend less time, money and resources on a distraction from the issues and their own failings.

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Immediate thoughts for starters?

We need a single identifiable gun lobby / group in this country.

Say what you will, but being fragmented is killing us. Having organizations like the NFA, which basically imploded under it's own executive drama, and having the less moderate ( read more extreme) gravitate towards it, isn't optimal.

CCFR, might be the pony to hitch the wagon to. But we need ONE.

While there may be some disagreement on the NRA and it's mandate in the US, it has always remained the voice of firearms owners in the US.

We also need to shut down the discourse that makes us sound like the "Green Mountain Militia". A bunch of keyboard warriors who at their core know that despite all the online posturing, they wouldn't last a night in jail, and will fold.

We have two years to take this seriously. Get our collective heads together, and change things. I respectfully suggest that we get cracking.

This will not sit well with Provinces west of Ontario, or the Territories.
Remember, all they need is a 51% vote and Canada loses most of it's Natural Resources .
If that happened do you think Northern Ontario or Quebec would want to stay in Canada? How about the Northern Territories?
Ontario, Quebec and the Eastern Provinces can have all the Liberal policies they want.