500fps Xbow

I work at a bow shop. I sell crossbows, compounds, etc.
I have no problem with what ever weapon someone wishes to use. As I mentioned above, I bought my son a mag 340 for Christmas to go along with a couple older ones we already have. We have compounds as well. Have lots of various types of firearms also. Love them all.
What I do get absolutely sick and tired of is hearing, on a daily basis I might add, crossbow hunters telling me about their exploits. In other words, irresponsible shots on deer they couldn't recover or deer they shot under because they misjusdged the distance as it turned out to be 70 yards instead of 50. And they talk about as if they're bragging. It's disgusting! It's unethical and bad for hunting.
I'm not dividing our community, I'm trying to stand up for it!
The bow hunting season isn't just a week long because bow hunting is hard. But here you have people constantly trying to diminish it by creating bows and trying to shoot farther and farther. You wanna shoot farther, hunt in the rifle season.
All this new technology does is create more and more situations for people to abuse the game we chase.
The majority of people who buy crossbows don't shoot enough. They don't even shoot a dozen arrows a year. How do I know? I ask them. So they sight their bows in and go hunt. Then they try and take a 60 yard shot on a deer. Absolutely rediculous. That's like if I buy a Sako with a Leopold scope, sight it in for a 100 yards at the range with a box of shells and them try and shoot a deer at 300. That would be stupid, yet I hear about the same thing happening with these new crossbow all the time. It's not uncommon for someone to come into the shop and say, "yeah, I'm interested in a Ravin because I hear you can shoot a deer at a 100 yards.
Again, learn how to hunt!!!

When did it become expected that hunter has to succeed and kill something when ever they go out?
That expectation is what it's turning into now. No one is willing to take the time to learn how to hunt, learn how to call, etc.
I see this in turkey hunting. That's why they're making 3 1/2" magnum double full choke shotguns and ammunition companies trying to sell farther, longer shooting shells. Now you get people trying to shoot turkeys out to 80 yards. That's rediculous. They don't wanna put in any effort to learn how to call birds because that's too much work. Why do that when they can just shoot farther. I dread the day when they make electronic calls legal for turkey hunting because I know a lot of people will be lined up to buy them.
That's why you get sky busters waterfowling. They don't take the time to learn how to set up a decoy spread or call.
Same thing with rifle hunters buying a crossbow. Bow hunting is an entirely different animal than rifle hunting. Most guys buy a crossbow and sit in the same blind they do in rifle season and would love to be able to shoot just as far.
Lazy people!

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Originally Posted by kokes

Its a slippery slope in terms of technology advancement and what will be legal in bow season and will this move these higher FPS into gun seasons, etc that has me a bit worried..

Realistically though, my zone is a one tag area, if my neighbor shoots a buck on his place with one of these what do I care, my season goes on and I do as I wish hunting the next farm over, so it really doesnt affect me..

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You have a much more positive outlook than I do. haha. Maybe if you're neighbor(s) had less technological advantages, success rates would be lower, and you're zone might not only be a "one tag area"? Maybe if advances continue, you're zone might not even guarantee a tag in the future?
My opinions on this stuff will always be on the unpopular side of LIMITING technology, rather than continuously advancing our advantage over game. It's nothing to due with ethics for me. Ethics and opinion should be left out of wildlife management (example: grizzly bear hunting in BC). It's the numbers that should dictate policy. When I see more advantages for the modern day hunter, I picture an increase in success rates. Followed by loss in hunting opportunity, tag reductions, etc. Maybe not right away, but slowly. Or maybe it's so minor it won't make a difference?
Every year when draw results are posted, there's complaints that people didn't manage to draw an antlerless tag. Well, should we consider limiting some advantages over wildlife to offset that?
Sometimes I can't help but wonder what success rates and tag allocation numbers would look like if someone flipped a switch and aligned our wildlife management regs overnight with say.... Alberta. No baiting. No party hunting/tag sharing(very abused here in Ontario). No xbows in bow season(without a doctors note or being a certain age). Would it be better? or worse? Would archery clubs thrive and fill up with those looking to pick up the craft? Or would hunters leave the sport altogether?

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

You have a much more positive outlook than I do. haha. Maybe if you're neighbor(s) had less technological advantages, success rates would be lower, and you're zone might not only be a "one tag area"? Maybe if advances continue, you're zone might not even guarantee a tag in the future?
My opinions on this stuff will always be on the unpopular side of LIMITING technology, rather than continuously advancing our advantage over game. It's nothing to due with ethics for me. Ethics and opinion should be left out of wildlife management (example: grizzly bear hunting in BC). It's the numbers that should dictate policy. When I see more advantages for the modern day hunter, I picture an increase in success rates. Followed by loss in hunting opportunity, tag reductions, etc. Maybe not right away, but slowly. Or maybe it's so minor it won't make a difference?
Every year when draw results are posted, there's complaints that people didn't manage to draw an antlerless tag. Well, should we consider limiting some advantages over wildlife to offset that?
Sometimes I can't help but wonder what success rates and tag allocation numbers would look like if someone flipped a switch and aligned our wildlife management regs overnight with say.... Alberta. No baiting. No party hunting/tag sharing(very abused here in Ontario). No xbows in bow season(without a doctors note or being a certain age). Would it be better? or worse? Would archery clubs thrive and fill up with those looking to pick up the craft? Or would hunters leave the sport altogether?

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You ask a very fair question and I get where youre coming from - personally I think we'd lose alot of hunters if we input Alberta bow only type rules (Alberta also has much longer firearms season and much more game to pursue) but thats just what I think.
What good is an archery club for me if I can only go there once a week to practise and to me thats not enough time to fling arrows to be proficient to hunting with.
If we want to grow hunting we are going to gain ground in the adult onset hunters and a crossbow is a great tool to start. I WANT new hunters to succeed and fill their tags - just like any hobby or sport - we all aim to get better and "learn to hunt better, golf better, skate faster, etc so I think naturally you will find many progress to compound bows as they evolve or perhaps even the trad bow. .that will happen but if you knock on crossbows you will only get a fraction of that new hunter into the sport - they'll just take up golf or play cabelas hunter on Xbox and wish they could hunt.
Technological advances arent just coming at us in the form of crossbows..mondern compounds are super fast too, advancing trail cam technology.... careful how much we gripe about fast crossbows are getting because the next thing you know lumenocks or cell cams could start to get banned, who knows.

I have mentored about 1 hunter per season for a few years now and not one is looking for a long bomb 60 yard shot with a crossbow, theyve all been guys (and gals) who can scratch together $400 bucks buy a used Excal Phoenix or vortex (under my recommendation) and sit within 30 yards of a deer trail to harvest their first deer.

Gone are the days where we all have an uncle with a farm, dad that hunts, and are taught archery for gym class in high school..hate to say it but its reality and thats why I think the crossbow is a great tool to get new hunters into the sport (yes I think a 350 FPS crossbow is more than enough and would be happy if thats all they were but I dont think knocking all crossbow users as a blanket statement gets us hunters anywhere)

I started hunting this spring. My pal didn't show up in time for turkey season so I had to use my sons crossbow. After sighting it in I was practicing a lot of 35 and 40 yard shots planning on setting my decoys up at the 30 yd. mark. I had some questions and posted on this board. One thing that stuck with me was a response from Jeff, he suggested setting them up at 15yds. He said if they are going to come in they are going to come in. Well I hunted 5 days a week sitting there listening to shot guns going off all around me and watching Toms strutting back and forth 60 to 70yds away week after week. All the time wishing I had a 12g with a Turkey choke and some Winchester long beard shells. But I didn't so I kept watching learning and getting closer. Got rid of the big blind and started using natural cover. Slowly getting closer to my game. Two mornings in a row I had hens walk by within a few feet and never new I was there. Shortly after a Black bear came up from behind walked beside me 18ft away and didn't know I was there until he was right in front of me. They following week I finally called one in and Jeff was right when they decide to come they come, all the way in to my decoys at 15yds. The point of all this is, it took me to the last week of the season to fill both tags but I leaned a lot more and it made me a better hunter. If Id had a shotgun it would have been over the first week or two and I wouldn't have learned nearly as much. Dear season went the same way. Had dear 50 to 100 yds. away. But learned how to get closer and closer as the season went on. Never did get my dear but was able to get close enough with the bow,(30yds) just didn't have a good shot. Again if I'd had a 200yrd gun It would have been over early and I wouldn't have learned as much.
My point is: maybe all this technology is actually doing us a disservice. Just a thought.

A big congrats Wake. That's what I'm talking about!

I hunt with a crossbow and don't care what others think!! :)

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

I work at a bow shop. I sell crossbows, compounds, etc.
I have no problem with what ever weapon someone wishes to use. As I mentioned above, I bought my son a mag 340 for Christmas to go along with a couple older ones we already have. We have compounds as well. Have lots of various types of firearms also. Love them all.
What I do get absolutely sick and tired of is hearing, on a daily basis I might add, crossbow hunters telling me about their exploits. In other words, irresponsible shots on deer they couldn't recover or deer they shot under because they misjusdged the distance as it turned out to be 70 yards instead of 50. And they talk about as if they're bragging. It's disgusting! It's unethical and bad for hunting.
I'm not dividing our community, I'm trying to stand up for it!
The bow hunting season isn't just a week long because bow hunting is hard. But here you have people constantly trying to diminish it by creating bows and trying to shoot farther and farther. You wanna shoot farther, hunt in the rifle season.
All this new technology does is create more and more situations for people to abuse the game we chase.
The majority of people who buy crossbows don't shoot enough. They don't even shoot a dozen arrows a year. How do I know? I ask them. So they sight their bows in and go hunt. Then they try and take a 60 yard shot on a deer. Absolutely rediculous. That's like if I buy a Sako with a Leopold scope, sight it in for a 100 yards at the range with a box of shells and them try and shoot a deer at 300. That would be stupid, yet I hear about the same thing happening with these new crossbow all the time. It's not uncommon for someone to come into the shop and say, "yeah, I'm interested in a Ravin because I hear you can shoot a deer at a 100 yards.
Again, learn how to hunt!!!

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The same people youre talking about, that take shots they shouldnt be taking with a crossbow, they have a hunting license, and I'm sure they have other means of hunting with besides their crossbow, and I'm sure theyre still taking shots at game with what ever they have in their hands that day that they shouldnt be taking, so lets here some rifle, muzzleloader and shotgun stories to go with the crossbow stories

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Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

I hunt with a crossbow and don't care what others think!! :)

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I am the same, my choice , why make anything harder than you have to.

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

Now what? It breaks the 495fps mark, and an electric motor cocks it for you. Think it will be allowed in Ontario "bow" season? Requiring a PAL?

https://ravincrossbows.com/

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfDe...ature=emb_logo