215 bodies possibly found

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

It really doesn’t matter what these youth succumb to.. The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code..

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. -- This was a complex situation that requires a lengthy & nuanced discussion, with valid points for 'both sides'. My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people.

For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code.. -- The jury is still out on this one. There are many cases of ex-gays 'coming back in' so to speak. Their testimonies are often glossed over or discarded because it doesn't fit the narrative. I would argue the LGBTQXYZ+ juggernaut (itself not a 'community' in any real sense, and especially threatened now by the focus on the T's) is being imposed on us at every turn: public schools flying the rainbow flag, the increasing sexualization of young children, every single corporation scrambling to change it's logo to include a rainbow, the church being bullied into proclaiming sodomy is the greatest virtue, etc. They are in no way 'oppressed' today.

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. -- This was a complex situation that requires a lengthy & nuanced discussion, with valid points for 'both sides'. My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people.

For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code.. -- The jury is still out on this one. There are many cases of ex-gays 'coming back in' so to speak. Their testimonies are often glossed over or discarded because it doesn't fit the narrative. I would argue the LGBTQXYZ+ juggernaut (itself not a 'community' in any real sense, and especially threatened now by the focus on the T's) is being imposed on us at every turn: public schools flying the rainbow flag, the increasing sexualization of young children, every single corporation scrambling to change it's logo to include a rainbow, the church being bullied into proclaiming sodomy is the greatest virtue, etc. They are in no way 'oppressed' today.

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“My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people”.

In the beginning it may not have been one-sided and malicious coming from loyalist stock my forefathers were probably appreciative of the indigenous people helping them eke out an existence in a new land after being driven out of their settlements in the south following the American Revolution, at the time the Royal Proclamation of 1763 was still up held by the presence of British governors and regulators. At some point, these safeguards began to slip away as more colonists arrive, and finally fell by the way side after the War of 1812, when the British fundamentally abandon their obligation to indigenous people and American exploitation west began. Shortly there after came the formation of Canada, and the eventual race to the west coast. At that point the indigenous people were proving more of a hindrance then a help. The American simply rode rough-shod over them. We by contrast did take a more benevolent approach choosing a pathway to assimilate them rather then simply massacre them. Apparent our approach to genocide prove to be much more of a gentler affair. . . . . .

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old.. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

“My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people”.

In the beginning it may not have been one-sided and malicious coming from loyalist stock my forefathers were probably appreciative of the indigenous people helping them eke out an existence in a new land after being driven out of their settlements in the south following the American Revolution, at the time the Royal Proclamation of 1763 was still up held by the presence of British governors and regulators. At some point, these safeguards began to slip away as more colonists arrive, and finally fell by the way side after the War of 1812, when the British fundamentally abandon their obligation to indigenous people and American exploitation west began. Shortly there after came the formation of Canada, and the eventual race to the west coast. At that point the indigenous people were proving more of a hindrance then a help. The American simply rode rough-shod over them. We by contrast did take a more benevolent approach choosing a pathway to assimilate them rather then simply massacre them. Apparent our approach to genocide prove to be much more of a gentler affair. . . . . .

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old.. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Very well said.

Further point: In what sense are they natives if they originally came from Asia many many years ago? Just because there was a certain group of people within a geographical boundary does not automatically constitute a country (something they had no concept of at the time). And as you mentioned, the 'white man' was displaced from his own homeland due to tyranny & corruption.

This does not excuse the moral failings of our ancestors for crimes committed against them. But it was a 2 way street. And you raise an excellent point, that there is often more common ground between two people of humble means (regardless of race) than those of the same race but a radically different class.

Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks & White Liberals" and Charles Murray's "Coming Apart" cover this type of thing.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

None of us were around when this assimilation started and consequently, we don't know all the reasons it was being done. History suggests there many cases where children were starving, were mistreated in their homes, suffered diseases that went untreated all while in their homes. Back in the day their lifespan was something like 40 years of age? The original intent of removing them from this environment for their own protection was likely the best solution at the time but obviously the situation deteriorated once in the schools. It is for this that the government and churches of the day should be held accountable. The question is how??
Like others have said I don't feel one bit responsible for this history and I will not apologize nor do I want todays government apologizing on my behalf. Regardless of the outcome of this story, we'll still be apologizing 100 years from now for percieved land grabs, for the reserve system, for their poor water etc etc etc.

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"Regardless of the outcome of this story, we'll still be apologizing 100 years from now for percieved land grabs, for the reserve system, for their poor water etc etc etc."

Good point Sawbill. And anyone who spent time on a reserve can attest, there is lots of corruption with the chiefs.
I got to know a lot of folks down in 6 nations territory Caledonia. Pretty wild stuff.

We should be helping them to be more self sufficient. But they already receive plenty of perks. Problem is lots of the aid never makes its way to where it should go.

All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.
It is indeed a sad affair,and not something we should be proud of.

At the other hand-we can not judge backwards,and apply today's laws to a 100 year old chapter in history, because it just does not work that way.
Never did. One of the key cornerstones of the Judicial System.

If we want to take away the emotions,and be a littlebit on "wild "side(and contemplating that there was no intend on killing those poor kids-which was in a way even confirmed with certain Chiefs).........we may dare to make a notion:at the time of the conception of this practice,it may very well was a novelty and a progressive thing.

BEFORE anyone throw rock at me-PLEASE read the history(not just CBC or CNN) AND realize, 100 year ago,there was a different world,where MANY MANY nations were opresssed,wiped out ,forcibly assimliated or simply relocated against their will.
Therefore judging and comparing the residential school system to today's standards is misleading at best.

Now-for all the bleeding hearts ,lets start a motion: lets ask the Moors why they destroyed half of Spain ,and ruled mercilessly AND to THEIR culture for hunders of years,Mongols to apologize for ransacking Europe 800 years ago,lets ask the Spanish to apoligoze for wiping out all the Caribbean natives(You know-there was a great nation-called Tainos)lets see what Russia will do to appease all the Siberaian natives they wiped out, or the Caucasians(Chircassians they were called-where are they now?),see why the Spanish had so easily SOO many local native allies agains the Aztecs(because the Aztecs were wiping out every other nation around them ),The Taranaki from New Zealand for wiping out the Moriori nation, or to stay locally-lets ask the Iroquois to apologize for destroying the great Huron Nation(You know-mid 1600-s)...
There is TONS of examples,and if one knows the history well enough,will understand.And will not jump on a sad bandwagon.

You see,chapeters of history are like drawers-whoever thinks he /she will find something in it,pulls one out,and starts to stir things in it, TO HIS/HER own benefit.
Especially nowadays,with all them snowflakes hate just about every piece of our history .

Peace be with the kids.

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Originally Posted by gbk

All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.
It is indeed a sad affair,and not something we should be proud of.

At the other hand-we can not judge backwards,and apply today's laws to a 100 year old chapter in history, because it just does not work that way.
Never did. One of the key cornerstones of the Judicial System.

If we want to take away the emotions,and be a littlebit on "wild "side(and contemplating that there was no intend on killing those poor kids-which was in a way even confirmed with certain Chiefs).........we may dare to make a notion:at the time of the conception of this practice,it may very well was a novelty and a progressive thing.

BEFORE anyone throw rock at me-PLEASE read the history(not just CBC or CNN) AND realize, 100 year ago,there was a different world,where MANY MANY nations were opresssed,wiped out ,forcibly assimliated or simply relocated against their will.
Therefore judging and comparing the residential school system to today's standards is misleading at best.

Now-for all the bleeding hearts ,lets start a motion: lets ask the Moors why they destroyed half of Spain ,and ruled mercilessly AND to THEIR culture for hunders of years,Mongols to apologize for ransacking Europe 800 years ago,lets ask the Spanish to apoligoze for wiping out all the Caribbean natives(You know-there was a great nation-called Tainos)lets see what Russia will do to appease all the Siberaian natives they wiped out, or the Caucasians(Chircassians they were called-where are they now?),see why the Spanish had so easily SOO many local native allies agains the Aztecs(because the Aztecs were wiping out every other nation around them )or to stay locally-lets ask the Iroquois to apologize for destroying the great Huron Nation(You know-mid 1600-s)...
There is TONS of examples,and if one knows the history well enough,will understand.And will not jump on a sad bandwagon.

You see,chapeters of history are like drawers-whoever thinks he /she will find something in it,pulls one out,and starts to stir things in it, TO HIS/HER own benefit.
Especially nowadays,with all them snowflakes hate just about every piece of our history .

Peace be with the kids.

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While the roots of the residential school system go back more than 100 years the last of these schools did not close until 1996 a mere 25 years ago and there were still many operating in the 70s and 80s. So while our ancestors may have started the system, the Church/Government perpetuated the system until not that long ago - much less than 100 years. In fact i would hazard a guess that many on this forum where were alive and past the age of majority when some of this went down - I know I was.

I know many say "i had no part in it" and feel no need to make reparations or apologize. For the most i understand and agree but at some level the electorate is responsible for the actions of the sitting government. So for some of those years when i voted there was a government in place doing this. I was totally ignorant at the time about what was happening but as the saying goes ignorance is no excuse. So even though i really had nothing to do with it i still feel some responsibility for the harm done in my lifetime as a voting adult.

S8472. We don’t always agree, but well said, good post.

“All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.“

Squirrel.
Yes and should be more. Like one a month until we vote.

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Originally Posted by glen

“All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.“

Squirrel.
Yes and should be more. Like one a month until we vote.

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They always need a distraction, SNC needed a distraction, WE Charity and so many lies and spending, PPE, COVID vaccines etc.... here is an interesting quote from one news media though...

" From 1969 until 1978, control and maintenance of residential schools was in the hands the federal government of Canada.

The Liberal Party was the ruling government of Canada from 1968 to 1979. The prime minister throughout this eleven-year period was Pierre Trudeau."



The Truth and Reconciliation commission and report has brought alot of this out in the open but since it was Harper's govt that created it that will mostly be ignored by the media you can bet, it's final report is rather sad in regards to the Children.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....ential-schools

Indian Act (1876), the government was required to provide Indigenous youth with an education and to assimilate them into Canadian society.
...
Nutritional deficiencies and overcrowding led to regular outbreaks of diseases at the schools. Tuberculosis and influenza were the major killers, but students were also affected by outbreaks of smallpox, measles, typhoid, diphtheria, pneumonia and whooping cough. In the winter of 1926–27, for example, 13 children died from a combination of measles and whooping cough at the Lytton school.



The report goes into the failures and there are many from goals, funding and so much more.

The final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, published in 2015, outlined several “undeniable” conclusions about the system:

• First, the federal government failed to set clear goals and standards for education at the residential schools.
• Second, the curriculum at residential schools was essentially an elementary curriculum, which reflected a belief that Indigenous people were intellectually inferior.
• Third, the government did not develop or implement a policy regarding teacher qualification.
• Fourth, the teaching staff was, in general, underqualified, overworked and poorly paid.
• Fifth, the curriculum (which emphasized the “four Rs” — reading, writing, arithmetic and religion) was not only basic but also largely irrelevant to the students’ needs, experiences or interests.
• Sixth, students left school without the skills they needed to either succeed in their home communities or in the “broader labour market.” Moreover, many of them left without completing their education.

In short, the education and vocational training provided by residential schools was inadequate.


Looking at the condition of the reserves in many areas, the fact the Liberal's undid the disclosure/accountability of the chiefs and reserves on their spending that Harper put in place and that clean water has got little action but billions can be sent elsewhere in the world..... like Seniors, Vets, Disabled it seems they aren't anything but votes and photo ops to the current gov't. It is time to throw out the Indian Act and race based segregation/reserves and those that need help get it instead of chiefs and bureaucrats just getting huge pays.


Looking back at the history of Canada before it was Canada you can see massacres, slavery and wars just like any other part of the world. Slavery for example, Wiki is a simple and often questionable source but even they recognize this much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada

"First Nations owned or traded in slaves, an institution that had existed for centuries or longer among certain groups. Shawnee, Potawatomi, and other western tribes imported slaves from Ohio and Kentucky and sold or gifted them to alliesand Canadian settlers. Mohawk Chief Thayendenaga (a.k.a.Joseph Brant) used blacks he had captured during the American Revolution to build Brant House at Burlington Beach and a second home near Brantford. In all, Brant owned about forty black slaves."

Think the Mohawks will make an apology and reparations? An apology when you had nothing to do with it is a nice gesture but in reality an empty one and a request for payments after so much time is just greed unless it has a specific purpose to actually help, think lotto winners that end up worse off, friendless and often in legal trouble or substance abusing.

They've played the game for a long time; bring up indigenous issues and the Fed's will give them 'reparations' and an apology.

Yes 'Dad' played a big role in trying to assimilate the Natives...good article in the Nat post under the title:

Turning a blind eye to Pierre Trudeau's unseemly Indigenous assimilation plan

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There is almost exactly a century separating the governments of Sir John A. Macdonald and Pierre E. Trudeau, but not much difference in their approach to Indigenous issues.

Trudeau’s “Statement of the Government of Canada on Indian Policy, 1969” didn’t propose separating Indigenous children from their parents and isolating them in schools where they could be abused by nuns and priests, but the strategy was the same: the best way to handle the Indian “problem” was to get rid of the idea of being “Indian” in the first place. Better to turn them into regular old Canadians like the rest of us. As Trudeau saw it, assimilation as a strategy was far from dead, it just needed updating.

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The proposal, known as the 1969 White Paper, was launched by one of Trudeau’s ambitious young cabinet up-and-comers, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Jean Chrétien. It was a monumental disaster. You can date today’s activism to the backlash generated by Trudeau and Chrétien. It makes educational reading for anyone wondering why so little progress was made between 1867 and 1969 — or today for that matter — or who thinks carting off a few statues and renaming some schools is a solution to anything.

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Trudeau’s remedy was far-reaching. Indigenous people would lose their special status and be treated no different than other Canadians. Chrétien’s ministry would disappear, along with the Indian Act. Treaties would be eliminated and responsibility for Indian affairs would be shifted to the provinces, along with temporary financing that would eventually decline “as a matter of principle.”

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The view taken by Trudeau, he of the “Just Society” and later the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, was that “equality” meant everyone should be governed by the same laws. Canada was no place for one set of rules for some people, and another set for others. That concept might have fit well enough with Trudeau’s own ideas of Canada as a unified country of English and French, but it was anathema to an Indigenous population whose separate identity was fundamental to their concept of themselves.
Trudeau’s document was withdrawn a year later. Far from contrite, he delivered one of his patented insults: “We’ll keep them in the ghetto as long as they want,” he shrugged. If Sir John A. Macdonald is to be condemned, certainly Trudeau and Chrétien deserve no less, given they had an additional century of history and experience to draw on, and the knowledge, learning and insight that presumably entailed. Macdonald acted on the best advice available at the time, as did those who followed him. His thinking was rooted in 19th century cultural mores. What was Trudeau’s excuse?

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Good to be reminded who and what political party was at the root of the problems with the indigenous people. With this chit storm swirling and an election coming this kind of article puts it all into perspective.

read more: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kel...imilation-plan