ATV Clubs / Is There A Reason For Them

Personally if I ever a sled or quad, I will use crown and be damned if anyone will stop me. I will see them in court, crown is crown and for the good of all taxpayers and citizens. Defiantly winnable in court.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

A snowmobile club can post No Trespassing signs with the authority of the landowner. They'd be acting as his agent.
Snowmobile trails on crown land exist under the authority of a Land Use Permit and in many cases can post no access or no trespassing. There are some exceptions however for anglers, hunters, trappers etc.

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I can't imagine too many land owners exist that would let the OFSC or OFATV act as their agents.

If the situation ever happens on crown land that I am on, I will certainly challenge it.

Probably most landowners do authorize them as agents otherwise how could a club lay trespass charges on their property. Initially landowners think its a good idea to have organized clubs monitoring traffic across their land only to find out later that these organized trails attract local wingnuts who don't stay on the trails. Often permissions and access gets cancelled altogether because of excess driving across fields instead of staying on these trails.

As for crown land you'll often find trail wardens working with OPP and charges do get laid for various offences from no trail permits, no insurance, no ownership, speeding and possession of alcohol. It all depends on the wording in the LUP and most charges are upheld.
You can go fishing, hunting, trapping or use the trail system to access your camp but recreational driving w/o a permit will get you nailed.

Its the gobbling up of traditional or established trails by snowmobile clubs that has the public fed up with the group.

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Originally Posted by Foxx

Thanks for the support frogger.I am on the executive of the Haliburton ATV CLUB and over $50,00 was spent on trail maintenance last year, the main costs being the South Lake trail from Minden out to the rail trail. These costs as well as bridge replacement, such as the new one west of Pine Springs north of Carnarvon are all possible because of membership fees.

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I went on the Stanhope FF poker run a few years back. After paying to go on the ride I was directed to a table because as a non HATVA member I had to have "special insurance" in addition to my current policy. I had no choice but to have more money sucked out of my wallet for no determinable reason. It was the very last you will get from me. Permits and politics suck the fun out of everything. The bridges that you put in are for the benefit of the sleds and get smashed by the idiots with the rock crawlers (5 points). ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE, we don't need groomed trails and I certainly wont buy a permit to ride on Crown land trails I do my due dillegence. I have picked up everything from bottles and cans to a car battery without having to pay a club to do it for me. Being governed by the ever increasing scope of an ATV club is not desireable, at least by me.

P.S. I know I'm going to catch hell from you guys but don't we all just want to ride WITHOUT being babysat ??

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Probably most landowners do authorize them as agents otherwise how could a club lay trespass charges on their property. Initially landowners think its a good idea to have organized clubs monitoring traffic across their land only to find out later that these organized trails attract local wingnuts who don't stay on the trails. Often permissions and access gets cancelled altogether because of excess driving across fields instead of staying on these trails.

As for crown land you'll often find trail wardens working with OPP and charges do get laid for various offences from no trail permits, no insurance, no ownership, speeding and possession of alcohol. It all depends on the wording in the LUP and most charges are upheld.
You can go fishing, hunting, trapping or use the trail system to access your camp but recreational driving w/o a permit will get you nailed.

Its the gobbling up of traditional or established trails by snowmobile clubs that has the public fed up with the group.

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thanks for info Sawbill

Just happens to be that skunk season is open year round and I always have my AR-7 survival rifle in the ATV, I will be legal 365 days a year on crown land.

To my fellow ATV riders who don't believe we should pay for permits on trails that already existed on crown land, I encourage you to carry and conceal a cheap rim fire gun on your machine, that is assuming you have a small game license.

Happy skunk hunting!

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Originally Posted by robster

"ATV trails don't need to be groomed". Clean up fallen trees, signage, pick up of garbage left behind by others, keeping riders on trails and off adjoining private properties. I guess this gets done by itself! Or does everyone carry out these duties when they "tread lightly" through the bush? This is where user fees apply with the help of club members and volunteers. Not everyone goes out with there ATV mudd bogging and thrashing up the land. So as to banning these fees and no need for groomed trails, your comment doesn't make sense!

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It makes perfect sense. Maybe,not everyone comes to go mud-boggin',but,they should expect to find it while riding,if they have any sense,at all. Otherwise,don't go.

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Originally Posted by robster

Unlike the roads and highways, the trails are tended by volunteers and club members. They are not full time maintenance workers and don't get paid for there work. By the sounds of all against fees there really isn't many members in the clubs. Not compared to the snowmobile clubs. So if you clean up the trail I thank you B Wilson. I do my part as well but most ride and drive by without a blink. As for signage it helps in emergencies as well. Not everyone is trail savy, have a gps or can tell someone where there are. As far as the wardens like so much of society, the gift of social communication (talking to one another)has been lost by many, not every warden is out to get you. So it may not suite you but for others trying to get into the sport or meeting others likewise clubs do have there merits.

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Clubs are a good for new riders getting into the sport,I won't dispute that. Like I said,if you want to join a club,knock yourself out. It's simply very wrong to claim you're volunteering through some altruistic ideal of doing something good for yourself,directly,then holding your hand out through an organisation and expect others to pay exhorbitant fees for it that didn't ask you or hire you to do it in the first place. That's just bullshyte.

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Originally Posted by Foxx

Thanks for the support frogger.I am on the executive of the Haliburton ATV CLUB and over $50,00 was spent on trail maintenance last year, the main costs being the South Lake trail from Minden out to the rail trail. These costs as well as bridge replacement, such as the new one west of Pine Springs north of Carnarvon are all possible because of membership fees.

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If your club membership wants to make that contribution for trail maintenance,great. You did it on your own,for your own interests. Don't expect anyone else that didn't hire you or appoint you to pay you for it through "fees". You can't say you're "volunteering" for your organisation,then expect that "volunteer" organisation to get paid back. That's not what "volunteering" is.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It makes perfect sense. Maybe,not everyone comes to go mud-boggin',but,they should expect to find it while riding,if they have any sense,at all. Otherwise,don't go.



Clubs are a good for new riders getting into the sport,I won't dispute that. Like I said,if you want to join a club,knock yourself out. It's simply very wrong to claim you're volunteering through some altruistic ideal of doing something good for yourself,directly,then holding your hand out through an organisation and expect others to pay exhorbitant fees for it that didn't ask you or hire you to do it in the first place. That's just bullshyte.



If your club membership wants to make that contribution for trail maintenance,great. You did it on your own,for your own interests. Don't expect anyone else that didn't hire you or appoint you to pay you for it through "fees". You can't say you're "volunteering" for your organisation,then expect that "volunteer" organisation to get paid back. That's not what "volunteering" is.

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I guess there's no need for the OFAH either with there membership fees and the work they and there members (volunteers) do since it would all get done eventually by someone else. Yeah right!

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Originally Posted by robster

I guess there's no need for the OFAH either with there membership fees and the work they and there members (volunteers) do since it would all get done eventually by someone else. Yeah right!

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Great post.

Atv-ing is fast becoming the biggest recreation sport going. It draws in tourists for the towns situated in a mass of crown land and logging roads. Atvs also come at a cost. To the guys that are out there cutting trees off the trail, that's great and thank you. Now could you kindly buy and install a culvert at every creek crossing. If you want to argue that atvs don't need culverts I will ask if you have ever seen what a hundred atvs will do to a speckle creek. What about a thousand? Give Black wolf's post a read. If we don't have clubs to keep the masses on curtain trails and allow them all to drive Willy nilly all over hells half acre the use of atvs will be stopped on crown land. Most atv clubs don't require a pass from locals. At least not the smart ones.

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Originally Posted by robster

I guess there's no need for the OFAH either with there membership fees and the work they and there members (volunteers) do since it would all get done eventually by someone else. Yeah right!

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The big difference,here,is that OFAH membership is NOT a legal requirement to hunt or fish on lakes and forests. Members do their volunteering because they believe in what they're doing,also,but,have NEVER lobbied governments for "special status" to force others into being members or levying huge fines for using natural resources we are all entitled to use as Canadians. This is the way ALL organisations should be,if not by themselves,then by law. THAT is my point.

If they weren't around a lot of the activities we enjoy today would be gone!