Alternative to Force Fetch

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Originally Posted by Sudsee

Whoa, I didn't look at this for a bit. I think everybody was a little confused with the purpose of this thread. I have read countless articles and watched videos on FF. I am not at all against it. What I am against is sending my dog away for 6 weeks and if I feel I need to do it I will do it myself with some help from somebody experienced. I posted this for those out there that get tired of hearing all the trial guys tell them that if you don't FF you are going to have a garbage dog. I don't know much about Wildrose other than what I have read and have no idea what kind of dogs they put out nor do I care. I have a welsh springer spaniel and only referenced the articles as they are working for me. I agree with what some others have said on here. You guys forget that you are on a hunting forum as well as some that do trials. Not everybody has the time, money or desire to have the dogs that retrieve for miles and run a perfectly straight line when it may be more practical in real life scenarios to run around something. At the moment my dog at 1 year old has far exceeded my expectations of him in the field and I will be fine tuning him for his whole life. He currently will quarter, flush pheasants and rabbits, retrieve them and deliver to hand. Is it with finesse? No, but at 1 year old I have no complaints. Thanks guys for your inputs and I always appreciate a good debate however when one side is close minded we might as well be hitting our heads against the wall. Kraka, Burly, Jakezilla I know you are well known in the sport and appreciate your responses and know you are very successful in your training however there is a chance some others may have dogs or themselves that may benefit from a slightly different approach. I by all means am no expert and have none of the experience you do but I am having fun training my dog and am seeing great progress and in the end if I have a dog that has manners in the field and will bring a bird right to me without eating it or dropping it I am happy.

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Great post , probably 75 percent or more of hunting dog owners would agree with you .:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Sudsee

Whoa, I didn't look at this for a bit. I think everybody was a little confused with the purpose of this thread. I have read countless articles and watched videos on FF. I am not at all against it. What I am against is sending my dog away for 6 weeks and if I feel I need to do it I will do it myself with some help from somebody experienced. I posted this for those out there that get tired of hearing all the trial guys tell them that if you don't FF you are going to have a garbage dog. I don't know much about Wildrose other than what I have read and have no idea what kind of dogs they put out nor do I care. I have a welsh springer spaniel and only referenced the articles as they are working for me. I agree with what some others have said on here. You guys forget that you are on a hunting forum as well as some that do trials. Not everybody has the time, money or desire to have the dogs that retrieve for miles and run a perfectly straight line when it may be more practical in real life scenarios to run around something. At the moment my dog at 1 year old has far exceeded my expectations of him in the field and I will be fine tuning him for his whole life. He currently will quarter, flush pheasants and rabbits, retrieve them and deliver to hand. Is it with finesse? No, but at 1 year old I have no complaints. Thanks guys for your inputs and I always appreciate a good debate however when one side is close minded we might as well be hitting our heads against the wall. Kraka, Burly, Jakezilla I know you are well known in the sport and appreciate your responses and know you are very successful in your training however there is a chance some others may have dogs or themselves that may benefit from a slightly different approach. I by all means am no expert and have none of the experience you do but I am having fun training my dog and am seeing great progress and in the end if I have a dog that has manners in the field and will bring a bird right to me without eating it or dropping it I am happy.

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Well Said! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Good to hear you are having success and enjoying your journey! That's what it's all about.

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Well said.:thumbup:

can I get a hug? I feel lonely :shy:

Responding late, been away all day.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

However, please do not assume this thread is now about retriever training , it is not.

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To be clear, I just meant that the posts were beginning to revolve around retrievers and the thread is really just about dogs. So we're agreed. :)

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Don't be surprised when FF cleans up that garbage and those issues disappear.

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Every set of field trial rules provides ways for dogs to eliminate themselves. For spaniels, running in is the ticket. Kraka mentioned poor marking and lack of control for retrievers. Even very good dogs mess up. It happens.

I'm not opposed to FF. (And I'm not defending Mike Stewart, as should be clear....) It's simply that I know some very good dogs that were not FF. When you can take dogs to the nationals without FF, then it seems that FF is not strictly necessary to the flushing spaniel world. Some do it and some don't.

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Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz

can I get a hug? I feel lonely :shy:

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You're a dog person...consider yourself hugged!

Absolutely. :) Your opinion /experience is valued here.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Every set of field trial rules provides ways for dogs to eliminate themselves. For spaniels, running in is the ticket. Kraka mentioned poor marking and lack of control for retrievers. Even very good dogs mess up. It happens.

I'm not opposed to FF. (And I'm not defending Mike Stewart, as should be clear....) It's simply that I know some very good dogs that were not FF. When you can take dogs to the nationals without FF, then it seems that FF is not strictly necessary to the flushing spaniel world. Some do it and some don't.

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FF is not a requirement for spaniels or pointers to succeed in field trials but it will make a difference.


Your dog only has to please you and if you are getting results that satisfy you it's all good. But there are no short cuts in dog training, if you want FF results you need to FF, there is no "alternative" method to get all the benefits of FF.


Is there anyone on here that FF'd their dog or had their dog FF'd that regrets it or wasn't happy with the results?

How does everyone feel about training FF with setters?

Interesting opinions here on FF and pointing breeds. I have no personal experience with FF and setters. I used 2 pros early in my pointing breed career to FF a GSP , and neither were successful. (One well -known in the retriever trialing world.)

my theory:

"Once the bird is flushed and shot, they want to go find the next one - apparently they feel that they have done their part, and if I shot it, I can pick it up. :) "



http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/...tch-my-pointer

http://gundogforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=9468