Upland Gundog Association Hunt Test - Aug. 30 at Ruffwood

These tests have nothing to do with the CKC. We are an independent organization. These tests are designed for hunters. At the entry level you are allowed to use them as they are a tool used by hunters in the field. At the advanced level they are not allowed as we expect more teamwork between handler/dog. As for cost this is pay as you play. No membership, no politics. All hunt all the time. It is a great educational experience as well as you get to see pointers and flushers at the same event. I would live to see a good group of support out as at the end of the day it's about dogs and birds. I run in NAVHDA and CKC events as well. As many opportunities to get my dogs on birds the better my dogs get.

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Originally Posted by Joshcat

These tests have nothing to do with the CKC. We are an independent organization. These tests are designed for hunters. At the entry level you are allowed to use them as they are a tool used by hunters in the field. At the advanced level they are not allowed as we expect more teamwork between handler/dog. As for cost this is pay as you play. No membership, no politics. All hunt all the time. It is a great educational experience as well as you get to see pointers and flushers at the same event. I would live to see a good group of support out as at the end of the day it's about dogs and birds. I run in NAVHDA and CKC events as well. As many opportunities to get my dogs on birds the better my dogs get.

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Awesome and I appreciate what you are doing and hope to make it out as a spectator.

Come on Vince! Participate. :)

It seems that pointing dog field trials in Ontario is a declining thing. If a group could combine multiple disciplines ( flushers, pointers ,retrievers) of hunting dogs and find efficiencies in putting on events then everybody should benefit no? As for the CKC endorsements or lack of that could be of consequence if one was looking to breed his or her dogs and needed registration but the FDSB and AKC are perfectly acceptable and respected governing bodies also and my guess is most gundog owners don't intend on starting up a kennel and breeding just like to hunt over a dog. I can't attend because I have to move my daughter into residence/school that day but would certainly have been there if I could just out of curiosity. Mike and Donna have a nice facility so this should be a good event to look at.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

A+ for that comment

And they start events like this as they are unable to compete at existing/current frameworks.

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In the sled dog world for purebreds just crossing the finish line and accumulating miles the C.K.C will issue a title. They could be dead last and still receive a title once the paper work is signed by the race official and paperwork sent in. These titles were developed mainly by the show breeders to say yes we have pretty dogs and they can finish long distance races but they don't tell anyone they finished dead last. I wouldn't give C.K.C an A+ but rather F in this case. These titles were frowned upon by the serious working bloodline Siberian husky racers because because the show bloodline promoters were lining up to get these titles.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

Come on Vince! Participate. :)

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You little devil. :)

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

In the sled dog world for purebreds just crossing the finish line and accumulating miles the C.K.C will issue a title. They could be dead last and still receive a title once the paper work is signed by the race official and paperwork sent in. These titles were developed mainly by the show breeders to say yes we have pretty dogs and they can finish long distance races but they don't tell anyone they finished dead last. I wouldn't give C.K.C an A+ but rather F in this case. These titles were frowned upon by the serious working bloodline Siberian husky racers because because the show bloodline promoters were lining up to get these titles.

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I would agree with an 'F' in that situation, much similar to the development of the WC and WCX which was basically a push by folks with show dogs to get some level of a field title on their dog and they were unable to compete in field trials .I judged the first WC in Ontario.....I don't even want to discuss that.

My comment about what Welch said:

It's not the clout or reputation of the CKC that matters; it's the standard of training that the title reflects, whether it is an American Field title or CKC or AKC or NAVHDA or whatever. If you look at the rules for the UGA event (for example, pointers only having to hold point for 5 seconds) it's clear that the title doesn't mean much beside any of them.

But ... owning a dog isn't a competition unless you choose to make it one, so that doesn't really matter. You get the dog you train, at the standard you demand, and events like this exist because they reflect the dogs a lot of people want. If people go out and have fun with their dogs and try to bring their dogs to whatever standard then that's a good thing

Was not about CKC at all but rather his view that there are standards.....standards for performance linked directly to clear and stated expectations and getting people involved pursuing these goals.

In our field trials you get points only for placing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. You must win at least one major All Age stake to get a Field Champion title. You must WIN. If you finish the trial you may be awarded a 'CM" meaning certificate of merit........it comes with no points. So a bit similar to your example but CM'S still being a worthy accomplishment and would not be viewed as finishing last. So are you saying sled dogs could get a racing title by accumulating last place finishes???

CKC is not some foreign body making up rules we like or dislike. The Directors are elected by the members, Council members are selected from various divisions(retrievers, luring ,pointing dog etc) Players in essence determine points required etc for titles.

I am not here to sell CKC, that's their job but I am amazed at the lack of knowledge and at times sheer ignorance when it comes to them. They have shortfalls....no doubt....like move out of Toronto folks!

And by the way if you dislike how CKC looks at sled racing and recognition then approach the Council to make changes. This happens all the time regardless of the type of dog or competition under current CKC process......if you don't like it then do something about it.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

I would agree with an 'F' in that situation, much similar to the development of the WC and WCX which was basically a push by folks with show dogs to get some level of a field title on their dog and they were unable to compete in field trials .I judged the first WC in Ontario.....I don't even want to discuss that.

My comment about what Welch said:

It's not the clout or reputation of the CKC that matters; it's the standard of training that the title reflects, whether it is an American Field title or CKC or AKC or NAVHDA or whatever. If you look at the rules for the UGA event (for example, pointers only having to hold point for 5 seconds) it's clear that the title doesn't mean much beside any of them.

But ... owning a dog isn't a competition unless you choose to make it one, so that doesn't really matter. You get the dog you train, at the standard you demand, and events like this exist because they reflect the dogs a lot of people want. If people go out and have fun with their dogs and try to bring their dogs to whatever standard then that's a good thing

Was not about CKC at all but rather his view that there are standards.....standards for performance linked directly to clear and stated expectations and getting people involved pursuing these goals.

In our field trials you get points only for placing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. You must win at least one major All Age stake to get a Field Champion title. You must WIN. If you finish the trial you may be awarded a 'CM" meaning certificate of merit........it comes with no points. So a bit similar to your example but CM'S still being a worthy accomplishment and would not be viewed as finishing last. So are you saying sled dogs could get a racing title by accumulating last place finishes???

CKC is not some foreign body making up rules we like or dislike. The Directors are elected by the members, Council members are selected from various divisions(retrievers, luring ,pointing dog etc) Players in essence determine points required etc for titles.

I am not here to sell CKC, that's their job but I am amazed at the lack of knowledge and at times sheer ignorance when it comes to them. They have shortfalls....no doubt....like move out of Toronto folks!

And by the way if you dislike how CKC looks at sled racing and recognition then approach the Council to make changes. This happens all the time regardless of the type of dog or competition under current CKC process......if you don't like it then do something about it.

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The true working bloodline Siberian people basically wanted nothing to do with the working certificate especially since it was started and promoted by the show breeders. And yes if you are dead last you still would qualify because you finished and put the miles in to qualify. A well known musher runs the Iditarod almost every year with show huskies and finishes dead last every year and the majority of her dog team have the titles. These titles become a selling feature to potential puppy purchasers when it becomes known she has ran the Iditarod many times. While others with the pure working strain have placed in the top five on numerous occasions and do not care if they have a C.K.C title because the standings speak for themselves. The true working bloodline advocates do not seek C.K.C recognition and is basically a joke amongst the racers ,breeders etc.

So tell me what is required to title a sled dog?

Points.....how many?

No wins??

That is in a different world when it comes to retriever trials and hunt tests......dogs that title deserve so and are extremely accomplished.

SD title is the accumulation of 50 miles.

SDX - 150 miles

SDU - 500 miles

I think I may have missed another title for over 500 miles.

Yes I agree it's a different world when it comes to the retriever world from what you and others have described.