Legality question ?

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September 18th, 2014, 02:35 PM
finsfurfeathers

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

Think you guys mean the same thing. Pushing a deer to a waiting hunter illegal. Walking side by side of a deer hunter legal
September 18th, 2014, 02:58 PM
Stevedigs04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

Well technically your info comes from a retired mnr officer's opinion of the law.

I would bet my benelli that 99% of CO would not ticket you if they walked up to the blind with one hunter one gun 6 birds and the other guy holding the video camera.

But don't want to start a fight we are basically saying the same thing.

-Steve
September 18th, 2014, 03:13 PM
werner.reiche

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

As my Conservation Officer friend explain to me, he will issue a ticket and that person can go to court and explain it to the judge. My information comes from the MNR, not my opinion.

And when you get there the judge will trust the opinion of the game warden in writing the ticket and will enforce the law as it is written.
September 18th, 2014, 03:49 PM
JBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

MNR definition of hunting.

HUNTING:
Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing,
chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured,
captured or harassed. You need a hunting licence to do any of these things,
except where the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, states otherwise.

You don't need to have a gun to be consider hunting. Just that fact that he is with someone who has a gun than he is hunting. My Conservation Officer friend (retired now) has charge people walking through the bush pushing deer for his friend, even though he doesn't have a gun and hunting license. The guy went to court to fight it but he lost the case. Cost him the fine, court fees and a day off from work.

Im surprised this comes up so often.

Lanark in essence your are correct and as someone one mentioned, "pushing deer" = helping with the hunt, = hunting

What is the definition of hunting? Well you actually need the legal definition per the FWCA. The MNRs definition is the same verbatim but is only the first paragraph, the FWCA defines hunting as the same but includes exceptions. Here it is in its entirety

Quote:

"hunting" includes,(a) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed, or(b) capturing or harassing wildlife,except that "hunting" does not include,(c) trapping, or(d) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of or pursuing wildlife for a purpose other than attempting to kill, injure, capture or harass it, unless the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed as a result,and "hunt" and "hunter" have corresponding meanings; ("chasse", "chasser", "chasseur")

Hunting does not include lying in wait for, etc etc....for a purpose other than attempting to kill/injure/capture. Keeps me legal as a photographer that doesn't have a turkey licence or as non hunter without a H1.

UNLESS
through my actions the game is injured, killed, harassed, captured.

Pushing deer so someone might shoot it...Well my actions result in it being shot....I better have my licences because Im hunting.

Shooting at ducks? I better have my licences
Calling them? Well if a duck responds to my call, and a friend shoots it....I am by definition hunting.

Non hunters can observe hunting, take photos, video.
Nature walkers can go walk in the woods, use calls, take pictures.
But if any action results in the game being harassed, injured or killed. It meets the definition of hunting, in which case you better be legal (have the card/licences). As a photographer I can pursue Deer....if it bolts and gets smoked by a car? Well by the letter of the law, Im hunting. my purpose wasn't to injure or kill it...But my actions (unless) its injured or killed..then Im hunting.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&BillID=1422&ParlSessionI D=36:1&isCurrent=false
September 18th, 2014, 03:51 PM
pjriley

Thanks for all the replies guys, you've confirmed what I already thought, just wanted to confirm.
Couple of things though :
- Internet / computer won't let me download the regs for some reason, and I haven't had a chance to pick up a hard copy, otherwise I wouldn't have asked here.
- the reason for the " shoot & shut up " comment was not intended to show any disrespect to anyone, I just wanted to get straight answers, which you all gave me.
- my neighbour was thinking about getting his license, but wanted to come out for a hunt first.

Thanks again for the responses, he'll have to stick to shooting with his camera, this season anyways.......

Cheers !
Paul
September 18th, 2014, 04:57 PM
trimmer21

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjriley

Thanks for all the replies guys, you've confirmed what I already thought, just wanted to confirm.
Couple of things though :
- Internet / computer won't let me download the regs for some reason, and I haven't had a chance to pick up a hard copy, otherwise I wouldn't have asked here.
- the reason for the " shoot & shut up " comment was not intended to show any disrespect to anyone, I just wanted to get straight answers, which you all gave me.
- my neighbour was thinking about getting his license, but wanted to come out for a hunt first.

Thanks again for the responses, he'll have to stick to shooting with his camera, this season anyways.......

Cheers !
Paul

Don't be afraid to take him with you,pj. Just don't let him call,shoot or retrieve birds. No CO will write a ticket for it because it's absolutely legal. Enjoy the day with your friend.
September 18th, 2014, 06:31 PM
brent

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanarkhunter

MNR definition of hunting.

HUNTING:
Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing,
chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured,
captured or harassed. You need a hunting licence to do any of these things,
except where the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, states otherwise.

You don't need to have a gun to be consider hunting. Just that fact that he is with someone who has a gun than he is hunting. My Conservation Officer friend (retired now) has charge people walking through the bush pushing deer for his friend, even though he doesn't have a gun and hunting license. The guy went to court to fight it but he lost the case. Cost him the fine, court fees and a day off from work.

You might want to read the part that you quoted a little further......

Maybe years ago that was the way, but not now.

Here it is....

hunting" includes,(a) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed, or(b) capturing or harassing wildlife,except that "hunting" does not include,(c) trapping, or(d) lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of or pursuing wildlife for a purpose other than attempting to kill, injure, capture or harass it, unless the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed as a result,and "hunt" and "hunter" have corresponding meanings; ("chasse", "chasser", "chasseur")
September 18th, 2014, 06:55 PM
rick_iles

An unlicensed person may also assist in the recovery of legally taken game.
September 19th, 2014, 08:15 AM
Waftrudnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

That's the premise behind the apprenticeship component.

yes and no. the apprenticeship programme requires the safety course (and waterfowl stamp) if I recall correctly. it's a great way getting somebody rather seriously started, don't get me wrong. however, to have somebody with a busy schedule or limited financial resources lick enough blood to get into it is a bit bureaucratic. Let’s put it in perspective: you can have someone shoot in arms reach, marksmanship is not part of the Ontario safety course (we don’t have a legal requirement that anybody is properly trained in shooting; i.e. hitting a target), and they will not harvest more (likely less) than the mentor would have anyways.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t do it and would certainly not advise it to anybody, because of the potential repressions the hunter may face.
Having said that, I wouldn’t necessarily call the MNR if I see one doing exactly that in a safe and responsible manner. Besides the fact that it is questionable if they would ever come. What would they find at the boat launch? One gun, one license, one hunter, on bag of game and a bystander…
September 19th, 2014, 08:51 AM
Bluebulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick_iles

An unlicensed person may also assist in the recovery of legally taken game.

That was my understanding as well.

I had a friend years ago who liked to accompany us. ( God knows what he got out of getting up at O dark hundred and going out to a cold and wet duck blind). He would take pictures, and once ducks were down, he'd jump in the canoe, and play retriever.

I had posed this to a CO at one of the Fall Hunting Shows, and he said it was fine, as long as he wasn't calling, or shooting.

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