On an other note, but along the same line......I amazed at the sight of a hang-up tree stand AND screw in steps all the way to the ground that I saw in a public hunting area today. The person who owns this stand has way more faith in people than I do. I would have removed the bottom several feet of steps anyway. I have also came across a couple of ladder stands recently. I didn't take the time to check because it's not my business, but I hope they secured them with hardened chains and locks.