Supreme Court rules Quebec's long gun registry data can be destroyed

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Originally Posted by revrnd

You can say that again. I'm surprised the CBC hasn't tried to characterize the Winchester Model 94 as a dangerous gun in the hands of thousands of hunters since the shooting in Ottawa last Oct'.

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Pardon an old guy's memory but didn't RCMP Commissioner Paulson make a statement on TV something about the M 94 being a weird or different type of rifle?

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Originally Posted by GoldenLakePete

Pardon an old guy's memory but didn't RCMP Commissioner Paulson make a statement on TV something about the M 94 being a weird or different type of rifle?

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Yes,he did,until someone behind whispered over his shoulder and quickly clued him in. He made a very hasty backpedal. It was kind of funny,really.LOL

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Originally Posted by revrnd

Maybe the fact that the rules in effect since 1934 have had an effect on Canadians' desire/need to own handguns.

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Canadians have always tended to view handguns differently from long guns.

Canada took steps to regulate handguns beginning in the 1870s. The registry introduced in 1934 had broad public support. The tendency up until 1989 was to view long guns as relatively benign but handguns as something that needed to be regulated.

So no, the government has not engineered Canadian attitudes towards handguns. On the contrary: Canadian attitudes towards handguns have created the laws we now have.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Of course they will, they can get ever penny they need from federal transfers. They can also write it the way they want....can you think of any little PIA things they could put in it?
How about any firearm entering or leaving quebec must go thru an import/export process. The Canadian Firearms safety course would not meet the minumim standard for training, and Federal Storage laws would also not be good enough. Owners would be limited to the number of firearms they may own at one time.
A firearms would be reclassified, and must ammo made illegal and labeled as "cop killer" or something like that.

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Catastrophize much? None of those things are likely to happen. Most of these fall outside of provincial powers, so these measures would be unconstitutional. For example, Quebec has no power to impose any import requirements on firearms, because interprovincial trade is a federal government power.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Canadians have always tended to view handguns differently from long guns.

Canada took steps to regulate handguns beginning in the 1870s. The registry introduced in 1934 had broad public support. The tendency up until 1989 was to view long guns as relatively benign but handguns as something that needed to be regulated.

So no, the government has not engineered Canadian attitudes towards handguns. On the contrary: Canadian attitudes towards handguns have created the laws we now have.



Catastrophize much? None of those things are likely to happen. Most of these fall outside of provincial powers, so these measures would be unconstitutional. For example, Quebec has no power to impose any import requirements on firearms, because interprovincial trade is a federal government power.

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Under a firearms registry they could require any firearm entering or leaving the the province to be documented and it's transfer be approved. The firearm is registried as soon as it comes in for sale. A firearm that enters or leaves the province must be done through a transfer from a licensed dealer within the province and one outside of the province...

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Under a firearms registry they could require any firearm entering or leaving the the province to be documented and it's transfer be approved.

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They can require it to be registered, but that's not an import/export process. They can't impose any import control, or deny the registration of a firearm from outside the province on any grounds except those that might apply inside the province. It is difficult to see on what grounds they could refuse the registration of any firearm, whether it came from inside or outside Quebec.

A province can require that guns be registered as property, because provincial powers include property rights. But given that the federal government has existing laws concerning the transfer of firearms, it is hard to see how Quebec could impose any additional rule denying registration of a firearm to any licensed owner. In short, they can count them but there is very little they can do to actually control them.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

A firearm that enters or leaves the province must be done through a transfer from a licensed dealer within the province and one outside of the province...

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Nope. Unconstitutional.

I think you've pretty much nailed it,welsh. For all these reasons,that's why I think a provincial registry,in the cold hard light of day,won't happen. There simply is no way the Quebec government (or any other provincial government,for that matter) could enforce it outside their province. Even if they came up with some stupid system where hunters needed to register their guns before they could buy a hunting license,that alone would cause a complete collapse of their hunting tourism industry. The Quebec government may have done a lot of dumb things,but,deliberately killing an entire industry isn't one of them.

Funny thing... that whenever people bring up something that happened in Alberta , 'some' ,people on this site say things like ....'this is an ODD site we don't talk about what goes on in other provinces'... but this thread is all about Quebec, what's the diff.:silly: If that is the case, don't shoot down someone that talks about another province's ( Alberta), business because, Quebec is another province , ' this is an OOD site and it has nothing to do with us'.:p You can't pick and choose, if some people want to talk about Alberta and some say no way ,than why should others be able to talk about Quebec, what is good for the goose, is good for the gander etc.

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Originally Posted by welsh

They can require it to be registered, but that's not an import/export process. They can't impose any import control, or deny the registration of a firearm from outside the province on any grounds except those that might apply inside the province. It is difficult to see on what grounds they could refuse the registration of any firearm, whether it came from inside or outside Quebec.

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If one may not register a Semi, Pump, or any Restricted ( R-PAL) firearm then they can deny any of them coming in to or possible passing through the province.

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Originally Posted by welsh

http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Snowwalker http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png
A firearm that enters or leaves the province must be done through a transfer from a licensed dealer within the province and one outside of the province...


Nope. Unconstitutional.

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Please explain.

Since any person OUTSIDE of Quebec could not be made to register the firearm, the sale could be classed as an Illegal sale.
Like one of us selling a rifle or shotgun to a person that does not have a firearms license.

So when the firearm comes into Quebec it has to go through the dealer to be put into the system, and when it leave it has to be removed from the system. Since the other provinces would not restrict the sale of a firearm to a licensed person, Quebec would want to prevent a person from buying a firearm is another province and bringing it home.

I would bet you dollars to donuts that selling it to someone and sending it out of Quebec would be easier then buying one and have it brought in.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

If one may not register a Semi, Pump, or any Restricted ( R-PAL) firearm then they can deny any of them coming in to or possible passing through the province.

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You're just making stuff up.

First of all, they can't prevent any firearm from passing through the province. Interprovincial trade is the exclusive territory of the federal government, and no province can impede the flow of any goods across its borders. And they almost certainly can't deny the registration of any firearm that is legitimately owned under a federal licence -- that would touch off a constitutional challenge over whose law took precedence, and the Firearms Act almost certainly would be deemed to take precedence over any provincial property regulation, because it is related to the Criminal Code. The constitution limits provincial powers, and Quebec can't simply pass any old law it wants to pass. It can only do the things that lie within its powers.

Don't try to bring up the notwithstanding clause. That applies to the Charter, not to the constitutional powers of the provinces.

All Quebec could do would be to demand you register any firearm in your possession while in the province. They are unlikely to do that, for the simple reasons a lot of people have already pointed out: they have an outfitting industry. Canada did not require US visitors to register their guns, and Quebec is very unlikely to require non-resident hunters to register their guns. That would be just dumb.

You are determined to imagine the worst here.