Guns are the problem

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

We seem to be locked in a mode of blame the sin and not the sinner and that is BS.

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I don't understand why we're locked in the mode of thinking this is about blame. It isn't.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Sorry this is so late in the conversation but I was busy all weekend long.

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Hunting, I hope..... :)

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

We have to factor for the lowest denominator within the gene pool I think and we will have to account for people who have a beef with what outdoorspeople do (PETA for example).

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Setting aside the animal-rightsers, whose motives are malicious, the reason people call the cops when they see a person with a gun is that they perceive that people with guns are dangerous. I don't believe these billboards would create that perception; what makes people's minds jump to crime when they see a gun is what they see in the news. That's the dynamic that powered the Login mess: people jumping to their worst fears.

The reaction to the billboards has grossly overestimated how much effect a few billboards can have. The anecdotes posted in this thread, and incidents like the Login incident, are rare. I get seen with a gun often in the fall and haven't seen a cop called over it yet, and I'm not the exception. In terms of hunter hours afield, how many nuisance calls get made? All that news coverage of shootings and crime -- it takes over the entire news cycle several times each year -- and yet these nuisance calls hardly ever happen. A handful of billboards in a couple of backwater Southwestern Ontario cities isn't going to make much of a dent.

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Originally Posted by welsh

I don't understand why we're locked in the mode of thinking this is about blame. It isn't.



Hunting, I hope..... :)



Setting aside the animal-rightsers, whose motives are malicious, the reason people call the cops when they see a person with a gun is that they perceive that people with guns are dangerous. I don't believe these billboards would create that perception; what makes people's minds jump to crime when they see a gun is what they see in the news. That's the dynamic that powered the Login mess: people jumping to their worst fears.

The reaction to the billboards has grossly overestimated how much effect a few billboards can have. The anecdotes posted in this thread, and incidents like the Login incident, are rare. I get seen with a gun often in the fall and haven't seen a cop called over it yet, and I'm not the exception. In terms of hunter hours afield, how many nuisance calls get made? All that news coverage of shootings and crime -- it takes over the entire news cycle several times each year -- and yet these nuisance calls hardly ever happen. A handful of billboards in a couple of backwater Southwestern Ontario cities isn't going to make much of a dent.

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http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Gun Nut http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png
We seem to be locked in a mode of blame the sin and not the sinner and that is BS.



"I don't understand why we're locked in the mode of thinking this is about blame. It isn...."

We are locked in to blame, because the billboard stated "Gun are the problem," If guns are the problem that is a statement of blame centered/focused at guns as being responsible for whatever the woes maybe. The reality is that whatever the woes maybe they are not the fault of the gun, but rather the individuals in whose hands the gun rests. The view seems to imply because gun are such a weapon of conveniences, if there were no guns there would be no woes, so guns have to be the problem. That is one dimensional, short sighted thinking. People have been causing woes (with knives, swords, axes, hammers, spears, and poisons) long before guns came on the seen. And will continue to do so, even if guns were completely removed from the scene. The sin is not the gun if it is misused, the sinner the one who misused the gun is to culprit. People who misuse guns are the problem. We do not have a gun problem, we have a people problem. However, we are reluctant to deal with the people problem, preferring instead to focus the attention on some inanimate object. Imagine the fun we are going to have with self-driving cars: oh the accident is Honda's fault, no Honda had it right General Motors is the one that messed up. Tom is the one with the problem, no its Bill, he shouldn't have bought that cheap GM trash. Something to think about!

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

We are locked in to blame, because the billboard stated "Gun are the problem," If guns are the problem that is a statement of blame....

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You're interpreting it as blame, i.e.:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

The view seems to imply because gun are such a weapon of conveniences, if there were no guns there would be no woes....

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That's purely your interpretation. Nobody is actually making that argument.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

However, we are reluctant to deal with the people problem, preferring instead to focus the attention on some inanimate object.

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Also purely your interpretation.

It's obviously possible to deal with both illegal guns and criminals at the same time. In the Crime Stoppers context, we have to realize that many people would be reluctant to report a friend or family member who was, for example, dealing drugs. They might not see this as a big deal. But if that guy is carrying a gun, we may convince people that this is a problem, as much for the safety of their friend/family member as anything else, and that they should report him anonymously.

So while the messaging is not so good here, guns themselves and not people lie at the heart of the strategy.

We as hunters & gun owners are as much victims of our own perspectives as the Crime Stoppers board. We need to take the blinkers off & remember that it is not always about us & our guns.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Hate to state the obvious, but oddly, Crime Stoppers were quick to pull the billboards.
no harm, no foul?

So why pull them (at no small cost) ? That mere fact that seems to be forgotten, would seem to suggest that..............And atleast in this instance is all that needs to be said/debated.

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Originally Posted by welsh

You're interpreting it as blame, i.e.:



That's purely your interpretation. Nobody is actually making that argument.



Also purely your interpretation.

It's obviously possible to deal with both illegal guns and criminals at the same time. In the Crime Stoppers context, we have to realize that many people would be reluctant to report a friend or family member who was, for example, dealing drugs. They might not see this as a big deal. But if that guy is carrying a gun, we may convince people that this is a problem, as much for the safety of their friend/family member as anything else, and that they should report him anonymously.

So while the messaging is not so good here, guns themselves and not people lie at the heart of the strategy.

We as hunters & gun owners are as much victims of our own perspectives as the Crime Stoppers board. We need to take the blinkers off & remember that it is not always about us & our guns.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

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I'm a willing student, could you expand on this statement a bit more:
"[COLOR=#333333]We as hunters & gun owners are as much victims of our own perspectives as the Crime Stoppers board. We need to take the blinkers off & remember that it is not always about us & our guns."

You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

Regardless of how quickly they responded by having the billboard taken down. It got both radio, and newspaper coverage, for that brief instance. It has created an impression either for good or ill. An advertisement doesn't have too reach saturation levels in order to leave an impression. Withdrawing the offensive article, is not exactly a recanting of the idea. When will they be putting up another billboard stating: WE HAVE DETERMINE GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Allow me to rephrase.

backpedaling and taking the signs down ( fast and at cost) equates to an "admission" of "wrong doing". Seemed Somewhat pointless to argue whether or not there was any blaming the guns or potential for the public to report people with guns.

No harm, no foul?
crime stoppers obviously felt the billboards were offside, albeit not until after the fact and people complained about it, just as some here are.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

I'm a willing student, could you expand on this statement a bit more:
"We as hunters & gun owners are as much victims of our own perspectives as the Crime Stoppers board. We need to take the blinkers off & remember that it is not always about us & our guns."

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Illegal guns in the hands of criminals are a problem. Not "the" problem in the sense of being the root of all evil, but a problem nonetheless. All the online caterwauling from gun owners (the threats to sue, the promises never again to donate one single dime, the demands for retractions and apologies, the wild conspiracy theories) ignored that simple reality. Those thumb-suckers on Facebook behaved as if it was all about them -- especially the people who supposed that this was actually a police conspiracy to undermine gun ownership.

These billboards were never about legal gun owners, yet lots of legal gun owners reacted as if the message were directed at them personally.

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Originally Posted by JBen

backpedaling and taking the signs down ( fast and at cost) equates to an "admission" of "wrong doing" ... crime stoppers obviously felt the billboards were offside....

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If you read Crime Stoppers' full statement, it is clear that they do not think the billboards were offside -- which is why some people continued to throw hissy fits after the fact, complaining that they were not groveling and begging forgiveness. Their statement could be paraphrased as, "Okay, if you're going to be jerks about it...."

The billboards were covered because Crime Stoppers did not want an ongoing circus that would distract from their organization's goals.

But have they learn their lesson yet? Are they likely to hold council with the groups representing the broader firearm arm community such as the OFAH and the NFA, should they come up with some other hair brain idea. Feeding the existing paranoia about guns which currently pervades our societies, is not exactly helpful or necessary. As well it may result in setting law enforce on the trail of law-abiding firearm owners, distracting them from pursuing the real criminal element.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Are they likely to hold council with the groups representing the broader firearm arm community such as the OFAH and the NFA, should they come up with some other hair brain idea.

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Likely not. If you were crafting an anti-crime message, why would you invite the input of groups that want to superimpose their own, unrelated messages?

Again, it's not about us.