1 Child or Youth suffers gunshot injury each day in Ontario

Pretty sure I read that they weren't. Will go back.

The main point Im getting at with respect suicides is more the mental health issues that are underlying them.
Depression, self medicating, drinking and drugs....

Then to, it might be worthwhile gauging how that skews the rural/urban stats.
You and I both know that rural areas.....Drinking...depression. Basically economic/societal factors
Yeah the stats might show one thing but
underlying that.
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Re suicides
I wonder how many "self inflicted" (or others) accidents are in fact not actually "accidents" as reported in ER rooms and thus spat out incorrectly in this. And I bet the author isn't so naive but then again, if you want the stats to show something....

garbage in, garbage out.
Safe bet there are probably a few young gang bangers going into ERS with a bullit wound and claiming "accident" to.

Stats can always be spun many ways.I have absolutely no trouble accepting them, where I begin to raise questions is why few dig deeper, for the whole picture.

Worded differently.
Why treat the disease when a bandaid will do.

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Originally Posted by welsh

People who swim in waters where sharks are present are more likely to be bitten by sharks. This holds true regardless of who owns the bathing suit, whether they are bitten while doing the crawl or the doggy paddle, or whether they had a swimming licence.

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Your statement has no validity, just because you have a car in your driveway does not mean you are more likely to get in a car accident. Maybe you have one but you do not drive, therefore the correlation does not match. They are citing "other literature" but will not list the data, where does that article come out of?

Look at Toronto, how many of the gang bangers who shoot themselves in the foot (would count as a youth with an unintentional gunshot wound) would be considered legal firearms owners in Ontario?

Lock up your guns and do not let your kids put the guns and ammo together without supervision and you will not have a shooting in your home.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Not so. Go read the paper.

The majority of the incidents are actually accidents involving people who live in rural areas.



People who swim in waters where sharks are present are more likely to be bitten by sharks. This holds true regardless of who owns the bathing suit, whether they are bitten while doing the crawl or the doggy paddle, or whether they had a swimming licence.



The first thing I did on seeing this report today was to track down and read the paper. Then I posted the link here.

Have you read it yet?

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I noticed particularly that they cited "15,856,459 person-years.....(?)" and then cited the use of a Poisson system generalized estimating equations,then,extrapolated their results from that. Yep,I read it and I still think it's self-serving,anti-firearm agenda-driven BS. I don't need to have someone piss on my leg then tell me it's raining.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Pretty sure I read that they weren't.

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Suicides? You were correct. They were excluded.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Look at Toronto, how many of the gang bangers who shoot themselves in the foot (would count as a youth with an unintentional gunshot wound) would be considered legal firearms owners in Ontario?

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Well that's an interesting question. But rates of unintentional injury were correlated with rural residence. Are you suggesting they're related to a large number of unlicensed, rural gang bangers?

The Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS), which on Monday issued updated recommendations for preventing firearm injuries among young people, says 635 children and youth under age 24 died between 2008 and 2012 from accidental and intentional gunshots, including those that were self-inflicted. Ninety-four per cent of victims were male.

Among 15- to 19-year-olds, more than half were suicides, while among 20- to 24-year-old, about the same proportion were homicides. For children under age 15, there were 15 suicides, 10 homicides, seven unintentional deaths and two whose cause was undetermined.

Dr. Katherine Austin, who co-wrote the CPS document, said she was pleased to see the Toronto researchers went beyond firearm mortality statistics and looked at data on injuries.

Over the five-year period, Ontario hospitals treated almost 1,600 young people for gunshot wounds.

"That's a lot," said Austin. "Can you imagine any other consumer product that caused one serious injury a day over a period of five years?"

The CPS position paper says doctors and other health practitioners can play a critical role in preventing firearm injuries and deaths by warning parents about the risks of guns being accessible to youth.

"Every family, rural and urban, should be screened for gun ownership," the document states. "Parents who decide to keep a gun in the home should be counselled to store firearms unloaded, with a trigger lock or in a locked container, and separate from ammunition."

The CPS also urged all levels of government to bring in stricter gun controls.

To reduce the availability of firearms to youth, the organization is calling for several measures, including strategies to curtail illegal importation of firearms into Canada, especially from the U.S., and tighter restrictions on semi-automatic firearms.

Austin said there is a pervasive belief that Canada doesn't have a problem with firearms, primarily because the level of gun deaths in the United States is so "spectacular" in comparison.

"It's like being shorter than (NBA star) Wilt Chamberlain," she said of measuring Canada's firearm death rate against that of its southern neig


The whole wording of the study seems to be to tell a story that then justifies more gun control and the facts are mixed up.

For the gang bangers and their age groups it would have been a lot simpler to give the number of homicides and wrote that most are by handgun.?
For the rural youth and their injuries the study seems to be indicating air guns?
There is no mention in the article I read about aboriginal youth and possible suicides?

When they talk about Canadian born youth,young men there the figures get really skewed as from personal experience a great deal of gang bangers be them Jamaican,Somalian, manage to get killed in gang violence again using handguns in urban centres.

I just finished listening to Dr.Katherin Austin from the Sick Kids Hospital on CBC she suggested air guns even when used lead to loss of limbs and eyes.

But she did not cite any figures for those losses.

The main thrust of the study is that "they want Doctors to question citizens in the emergency department about what types of guns they have in the home"
She also made reference to 12 year olds having access to firearms.

If the authors of this report had educated themselves on the existing Firearms laws,storage,hunting age limits,Provincial laws on reporting, they could probably have saved half the report being written as their questions,requests are already in place.

For example:


Over the five-year period, Ontario hospitals treated almost 1,600 young people for gunshot wounds.

Q. "That's a lot," said Austin. "Can you imagine any other consumer product that caused one serious injury a day over a period of five years?"

A.Knives.

Most people won't read the article as they are too busy working, they will just hear/see the headline and speak to it....

Guns kill youths daily.................. is all that will register for many voters in big cities.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Well that's an interesting question. But rates of unintentional injury were correlated with rural residence. Are you suggesting they're related to a large number of unlicensed, rural gang bangers?

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Are you aware of rural communities? If you think that gangs, drugs and criminal activity are absent in rural areas then you need to look into it a lot deeper. I am actually curious now as to what population density denotes rural, is a town like Listowel urban or rural? What about Elmira?

I do find it interesting that they have data for 2008-2012, 280 of the 1169 non-immigrant are unintentional rural injuries. So, 56 per year on average over the 5 year period listed, so, if rural residents are far more likely to have firearms should we not have significantly more than 56 injuries in any given year? The data shows 12.5 per 100 000 people in rural areas compared to 6.3 for urban centers but yet rural residents have far more firearms than urban residents, well over double.

Fake news.

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Originally Posted by Fox

If you think that gangs, drugs and criminal activity are absent in rural areas then you need to look into it a lot deeper.

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I didn't say crime was absent from rural areas. I asked if you were suggesting that the higher rate of firearms accidents in rural areas was associated with illegal ownership. This would be unlikely for several reasons.

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Originally Posted by Fox

So, 56 per year on average over the 5 year period listed, so, if rural residents are far more likely to have firearms should we not have significantly more than 56 injuries in any given year? The data shows 12.5 per 100 000 people in rural areas compared to 6.3 for urban centers....

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So, to get your argument straight, the rate of firearms accidents in rural areas is double that in urban centers, and you think the study is wrong because it should be even higher?

What I see here is motivated reasoning.