Understanding the moose validation tag draw

Rick FYI
you also get pool #'s and group#'s when applying on-line.
see GREF below (stands for Group Reference)

MOOSE DRAW ENTRY
Start Date: 2017-05-01
End Date: 2017-12-31
Hunt Choice 1: HUNT CODE: 690, WMU 88, Bull, Snares Only
Hunt Choice 2: HUNT CODE: 690, WMU 88, Bull, Spotlight Only
GROUP MEMBER: 01 POOL STATUS: 2 GREF: 6817210

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Originally Posted by jaycee

The draws are done by computer and if you have the guaranteed group size required, you are more than likely to get a tag , but not necessarily, as I know of groups that have had the require number in the group but have not been lucky enough to get tags for the last 2 years. They applied in tough areas.

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I've have never been part of a group, or known a group, that was not given a tag if they met the guaranteed group size by having enough POOL 1 applicants. But, I have talked to groups that thought they met the guaranteed size, but after some investigation discovered that they were short of the guaranteed size because some members mistakenly thought they were pool 1, when in fact they were pool 2, making them ineligible to count towards the group size.

I have never ever heard of a guaranteed group not getting a tag. If groups have randomly been denied a tag after meeting the guaranteed criteria, I'm sure the OFAH would be interested, as it should warrant investigation, as well as an explanation from the MNRF.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Why prolong this discussion here ? take up your argument directly with the MNRF, at Head Office, they are the ones that make up and set the rules and regulations.

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Just for the sake of making an informed decision. Don't feel obligated to respond if you don't like it. My point is all the arguments I posted here can be backed up with an official document. It's not word of mouth, it's not my friends or my group previous experience, it's the document that everybody should read before going out to hunt. The only reason for posting is that I didn't have a good understanding of the above mention document ( re. the topic of this thread) and wanted to see how others see it. I will eventually make my way to Aurora MNR office but I'm not sure if I can find the right persons there. Speaking with the lady at the counter where they sell licences probably doesn't help.

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Originally Posted by delmer

I've have never been part of a group, or known a group, that was not given a tag if they met the guaranteed group size by having enough POOL 1 applicants. But, I have talked to groups that thought they met the guaranteed size, but after some investigation discovered that they were short of the guaranteed size because some members mistakenly thought they were pool 1, when in fact they were pool 2, making them ineligible to count towards the group size.

I have never ever heard of a guaranteed group not getting a tag. If groups have randomly been denied a tag after meeting the guaranteed criteria, I'm sure the OFAH would be interested, as it should warrant investigation, as well as an explanation from the MNRF.

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What you're saying makes a lot of sense.

I think the moment the MNR published the words "GUARANTEED" that there is a legal, binding obligation to all groups that meet the requirement. They can not (legally) say guaranteed, take your money, and not fulfill the contract.
The MNR is just rolling the dice like they always do.
If they ever screwed our group like that we'd pool all our $ and hire a lawyer and bend them over!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Coincidence likely. We always apply over the phone. It gives you your pool numbers so you can keep track.

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We have always done ours through the license issuer, starting with the group leader who is given a group reference number and we all give the reference number to the issuer when we apply wherever we go to get our licenses.

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Originally Posted by delmer

I've have never been part of a group, or known a group, that was not given a tag if they met the guaranteed group size by having enough POOL 1 applicants. But, I have talked to groups that thought they met the guaranteed size, but after some investigation discovered that they were short of the guaranteed size because some members mistakenly thought they were pool 1, when in fact they were pool 2, making them ineligible to count towards the group size.

I have never ever heard of a guaranteed group not getting a tag. If groups have randomly been denied a tag after meeting the guaranteed criteria, I'm sure the OFAH would be interested, as it should warrant investigation, as well as an explanation from the MNRF.

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This guaranteed group size doesn't mean much if the number of groups that apply to a certain wmu exceeds the number of tags available, it is impossible then to uphold that guarantee if there are not enough tags available.
This is evidenced by the Group Statistics and the individual Statistics proved in the regs. summary.
IE; last year , Total # of groups 7,868
Total # of tags issued to groups 4,322
Percentage of groups receiving tags 55 percent, meaning that 45 percent of those groups applying, did not receive tags.
As was the case with my neighbor, even though they had 3 more than the required group size in pool # 1

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Originally Posted by jaycee

This guaranteed group size doesn't mean much if the number of groups that apply to a certain wmu exceeds the number of tags available, it is impossible then to uphold that guarantee if there are not enough tags available.
This is evidenced by the Group Statistics and the individual Statistics proved in the regs. summary.
IE; last year , Total # of groups 7,868
Total # of tags issued to groups 4,322
Percentage of groups receiving tags 55 percent, meaning that 45 percent of those groups applying, did not receive tags.
As was the case with my neighbor, even though they had 3 more than the required group size in pool # 1

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Yep, I’ve been at this moose thing for a long time, 38 yrs and counting. There have been a lot of changes over the years. Our group has been together all that time, with a few new members, sons etc.. We have had tags every year with the exception of one. We’ve also never left a tag not filled.
I’ve heard lots of stories about groups that didn’t get tags for years on end. I usually attribute that to guys not applying, not applying properly, or just missing the deadline. However, there have been a few stories that make a guy go..Hmmmm!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yep, I’ve been at this moose thing for a long time, 38 yrs and counting. There have been a lot of changes over the years. Our group has been together all that time, with a few new members, sons etc.. We have had tags every year with the exception of one. We’ve also never left a tag not filled.
I’ve heard lots of stories about groups that didn’t get tags for years on end. I usually attribute that to guys not applying, not applying properly, or just missing the deadline. However, there have been a few stories that make a guy go..Hmmmm!

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No wonder we got no moose left.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yep, I’ve been at this moose thing for a long time, 38 yrs and counting. There have been a lot of changes over the years. Our group has been together all that time, with a few new members, sons etc.. We have had tags every year with the exception of one. We’ve also never left a tag not filled.
I’ve heard lots of stories about groups that didn’t get tags for years on end. I usually attribute that to guys not applying, not applying properly, or just missing the deadline. However, there have been a few stories that make a guy go..Hmmmm!

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This incident happened a number of years ago, anyone that received a tag that year , was under 35 years of age.
This was even written up in the ood mag. at the time , a lot of shid raised , after it was all done and discovered, MNR did admit to "a mistake being made ".

My years of moose hunting, 58 and counting, a lot of moose have fallen to my rifles and provided a lot of great eating .
Back when I started, you just bought your "moose licence " and shot either or, cow or bull , mainly shot bulls as they were usually larger.