What Socialized Health Care Can Lead To -

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Originally Posted by terrym

Everybody who knows me knows I am for small government. Some things are too important and fundamental to privatize. Health care can be improved, mostly by cutting the layers of ineffective administration that sucks funding from front line care givers. My opinion of these workers is that they are probably the most dedicated and needed civil servants. There is room for private within the system ( which already exists ) but funding should always be covered by government.
Not that different with Hydro. It needs to be government run but the layers of obscene salaries and bonuses by admin needs to be stopped. Doug will start the process.

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That’s a good summary

Our electric power costs are a lot lower than what you guys pay because private companies compete with each other for customers - we can choose any company to supply our power using the local utility's distribution system - government controlled electric power does not give you the cheapest rates - no competition

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Our electric power costs are a lot lower than what you guys pay because private companies compete with each other for customers - we can choose any company to supply our power using the local utility's distribution system - government controlled electric power does not give you the cheapest rates - no competition

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Compared to Ontario this is mostly true. Compared to Quebec and Manitoba not even close. Those government run electrical systems are the cheapest in the developed world and power cost about half of what you pay in the States. Alberta, BC and Newfoundland are also cheaper than the States. The rest of Canada has similar rates to the US.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/data/docu...ity-prices.pdf

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Originally Posted by Fox

So your answer is to move states? Making it easy on the sick eh.

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Try reading it, I said to look into Medicaid and if you can get the treatment in another state then you can move. It may be the only option .... in Canada we see things like that all time where people go to the US for treatment, my neighbour went to India for ALS treatments approved in Europe and most of Asia but not Ontario,

In Calgary
https://globalnews.ca/news/3410342/c...ystem-says-no/

In Ontario
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-international

took me a minute to find this one ... last I heard it was still not approved.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/girl-1...osis-1.1711487


63,000 left the country for medical treatments...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-000...tute-1.3486635
the top three provinces from which patients travelled abroad for treatment are:

Ontario: 26,513 patients
British Columbia: 15,372 patients
Alberta: 9,067 patients


People will go to many lengths and even dangers for their health .... Vicar Andrew White I have heard joke about the only place he could get his medical treatment for MS was in the red zone in Baghdad.... when the doctor friend of his decided to treat him, others also started going there for treatment that was unavailable anywhere else in the world other than for alot of money in China.
Eric Metaxas and Canon White in an interview ... I enjoyed this interview alot but you can listen starting at 30:30. His line was roughly "we can cure you but you might die getting here" , I saw elsewhere that 11 staff had been killed in one year there and at one point they had assigned him "35 armed guards assigned to protect him"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOJlSIaFv1I

P.S.
I was listening and laughing with the above interview and found one on him actually getting treatment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev1cbH1FISk

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Our electric power costs are a lot lower than what you guys pay because private companies compete with each other for customers - we can choose any company to supply our power using the local utility's distribution system - government controlled electric power does not give you the cheapest rates - no competition

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At some point those companies have to buy it from the suppliers and they have to maintain the lines and equipment, in many areas they may take days or weeks to respond to a power outage due to the impact on the bottom line. In Ontario we have a corrupt ideologues in power that sold off 60% of Hydro One and still think they are in control... they push electric cars, build wind turbines in environmentally sensitive areas killing birds and bats by the thousands and still plan on rate increases...
http://business.financialpost.com/co...m-2017-to-2035

Mosquito, what Joe is talking about with the power is not small company providing power to your house with their own lines. Your thinking it's like cable/satellite TV and home phone/internet line, maybe. No the companies pre-buy huge blocks( hundreds or thousands) of kilowatt hours from the generating companies that own and maintaine the transmission lines and infrastructure.

It's like I start a gas club. I pre-buy like 500 thousand liters of gas from husky or petro canada. I get the gas at a price low enough to resell it to my members so that they pay a few cents below the pump price and I still make a few cents profit on each liter. The more members I have in my gas club, the more gas I can pre-buy and the cheaper the price for the members.
Does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by mosquito

63,000 left the country for medical treatments...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-000...tute-1.3486635
the top three provinces from which patients travelled abroad for treatment are:

Ontario: 26,513 patients
British Columbia: 15,372 patients
Alberta: 9,067 patients

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No doubt this happens, but conversely 1,400,000 Yanks leave the US every year to seek treatment in foreign countries.

http://www.businessinsider.com/more-...is-year-2016-8

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/0...ear-Should-You

The primary reason being that they can't afford treatment in their own country. That's what happens when an essential service like healthcare is put into the hands of corporations only interested in the bottom line and keeping the shareholders happy. Like I said earlier I am a capitalist pig but some things are too important to entrust to corporations only interested in lining their pockets. Any model will undoubtably have issues but where health is concerned if greed can be eliminated it can only be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Mosquito, what Joe is talking about with the power is not small company providing power to your house with their own lines. Your thinking it's like cable/satellite TV and home phone/internet line, maybe. No the companies pre-buy huge blocks( hundreds or thousands) of kilowatt hours from the generating companies that own and maintaine the transmission lines and infrastructure.

It's like I start a gas club. I pre-buy like 500 thousand liters of gas from husky or petro canada. I get the gas at a price low enough to resell it to my members so that they pay a few cents below the pump price and I still make a few cents profit on each liter. The more members I have in my gas club, the more gas I can pre-buy and the cheaper the price for the members.
Does that make sense?

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Yes, I have actually worked on reseller programs at some companies I have worked for.
Providers, transmission, resellers ... but many to the customer sellers in the US energy market are already public utility companies.
http://competitiveenergy.org/consume...#northcarolina

looking at a map of North Carolina...
https://www.carolinacountry.com/medi...81c4b1f227.jpg

We do see some of the same with resellers like Techsavvy that uses Roger's lines or small telco's using Bell towers etc. As a side note many internet DSL providers (actually resellers) don't tell you that if you port your telephone number over to them you may still have to pay Bell (directly or through them) for the final loop (that final connection to the house). They will still be using Bell's lines to your property and a "dry line" (no phone) is still active with a DSL and is charged for.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

No doubt this happens, but conversely 1,400,000 Yanks leave the US every year to seek treatment in foreign countries.

http://www.businessinsider.com/more-...is-year-2016-8

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/0...ear-Should-You

The primary reason being that they can't afford treatment in their own country. That's what happens when an essential service like healthcare is put into the hands of corporations only interested in the bottom line and keeping the shareholders happy. Like I said earlier I am a capitalist pig but some things are too important to entrust to corporations only interested in lining their pockets. Any model will undoubtably have issues but where health is concerned if greed can be eliminated it can only be a good thing.

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Benefit management companies are used by many companies for their prescription and healthcare for their employees and if you look at the example set by the public ones they often seem less altruistic than the private ones given my experience. A company making a profit has a motivation to provide better service, to keep a good reputation and still make money (which is also often the issue too).

However a purely public one like in Ontario we see a 12 year old crying for medication they won't pay for, my neighbour going to India because he can afford it and they won't approve the treatment here (been approved in Europe and US for years) etc. It is a bloody fine line that when someone tells you it must be an absolute on something this complicated I cringe.... I wish Ontario allowed more private corporations and we see it in MRI and some places but when comparing to the US and medicaid it is not as bad as many say .... ALOT of room for improvement to though .... In Canada we see things like the operation above that they had to come up with $600,000 for etc.

It is a mix of goals and we see the doctors that do things like "Operation Smile" and other procedures and I remember my dentist going off to do work overseas for free. We are lucky to have what we do have but Wynne and the Liberal's have done cuts, held back treatments approved all over the world for years and even killed the "annual" physical and every time I go for a bug or prescription there is a new notice about a cut etc. .... but I would sure as heck not to be the one responsible for trying to fix it....

Imagine when Ford gets in trying to straighten out the secret contracts, long term debts etc. He is going to need a sledge hammer, duct tape and bandaids on what he finds like crazy and imagine being the one accountable for fixing what the governor general has been reporting ... then think of all the drug bills, free bees etc. Wynne has thrown around to try and win the election... and all tied to people's health and life .... head spin!

The little boy in the UK died -

Joe if the US wants a wall between US and Canada , I will contribute money to the cause.
Anything to keep you out of the country.

[QUOTE=JUDGE;1059269]Joe if the US wants a wall between US and Canada , I will contribute money to the cause.
Anything to keep you out of the country.[/QUOTE

There must be something wrong with Joe, he must be a gluten for punishment, he is always denigrating CANADA , but he keeps coming up here to fish,.
He should stay down there in the u.s. where he can carry his sidearm while fishing for catfish .