Crossbow Hunting Legalization

So they finally changed the laws? I remember asking a CO why Crossbows were illegal and he said because only poachers use them. I left the Maritimes in 1988.

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Originally Posted by Grinr

PEI has no big game to hunt anyhow,no deer/moose/bear etc...the biggest game on PEI is coyotes and only relatively recently(1990s?) since they made their way across Northumberland Strait on ice flows.
Crossbows been legal in NS since I’m gonna guess around 2008-ish?
NS allowing x-bows sparked a hotly debated controversy to allow x-bows in NB,and in 2011NB made xbows legal for general firearms seasons but not for the 3 week archery only deer season which precedes the 4 week firearm season.
2016 NB caved and allowed bows for the archery only season as well.
No small coincidence that in NB between 2011 and 2015 when xbows were allowed in the NB woods for the first time ever,the WT Deer “archery” harvest TRIPLED from historic average,as Xbows were allowed in early October for small game and bear hunting,but not legal for archery deer.Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that guy’s were legally carrying xbows for small game/bear and illegally killing deer with them and registering their poached deer as legit archery kills.
In Alberta,where I’ve now lived since 2011,xbows are allowed during General Firearm seasons but not during Archery Only seasons without an affidavit from physician for Disabled permit....as it should be imho.
We’ve already lost many opportunities in Alberta just in the 8 years I’ve been here for OTC archery only tags for Antlered Mule Deer and Moose in many units with bowhunters being “too successful” cited as the reason for these OTC Archery hunts going on draw.If xbows were recognized and legal here for archery only,guaranteed we would lose the remaining few WMUs that still allow OTC Archery moose and mulies in just a few short years.

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Well first of all just to be clear on my position,I was strongly opposed to xbows being legalized in NB at all,because I knew it was only a matter of time if they were legalized at all that making them legal for archery only season wouldn’t be far behind.Low and behold,5 years later the NBF&G Act was amended to allow crossguns in archery season.
I’ve heard it all before,all of the arguments on how xbows are no more effective then compounds,same effective range,compounds today are too efficient maybe we should all go back to the Stone Age and use stick bows,stick bow guys felt the same about allowing compounds into “their season” blah blah blah.....

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Originally Posted by Fox

Why should you not be able to use a crossbow? It does not increase your range over a compound bow. You can say there is an advantage of not having to hold at full draw but with 80% let off bows you are not really holding much back, a 50lb compound with an 80% let off at full draw is less fatigue on the arms than a 6lb crossbow without a rest.

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You are only fooling yourself if you seriously believe that a xbow isn’t a significant advantage over a compound.
There are at least a few xbows on the market today capable of 4” groups @100yards.Ive been bowhunting with compounds for almost 30 years now,I wouldn’t even DREAM of making a 100y shot on 4ft square sheet of plywood let alone hitting a 4” circle or a deer in the vitals.
Having a cocked and loaded xbow is a HUGE advantage for spot&stalk stillhunting,which happens to be my favorite method of hunting.Any bigwoods rifle hunter will tell you that you often have less then 3 seconds from the time you first spot a deer to decide if it’s a shooter,shoulder your firearm,and shoot.
Normally when I’m stillhunting with a compound,my arrows are in the quiver,it’s just far too cumbersome and tiring,not to mention difficult and noisier to maneuver thru bush with a nocked arrow,unless I am on “final approach” of a stalk or I’m just “feeling it” and I’m “in the zone” expecting action at any minute.
I would liken stillhunting with a crossbow to hunting with a single shot shotgun or traditional muzzleloader,which fwiw I’ve done lots of the latter and a bit of the former..see a deer inside of anywhere from 50y with the ol shotgun to 100y with my ol smokepole and its just a matter of shoulder weapon and shoot immediately/<3 seconds......just like a xbow.
i couldn’t even begin to count the dozens upon dozens of deer/bear/moose/elk that I’ve encountered while stillhunting with a compound and I didn’t even have time to get an arrow from my quiver before it bolted,let alone nock an arrow,draw and release before it bolts.I would venture to guess that my success would increase tenfold had I been carrying a cocked and loaded xbow in dozens of those scenarios instead of a compound.....shoulder n shoot....just like I would with my muzzleloader.
And that’s without even getting into how much more difficult it is to draw a bow from a tree stand on a bundle of nerves sketchy Whitetail inside of 25 yards vs slowly raising and aiming an xbow....no comparison/not even close.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Yep, greed.

It would be easy enough for traditional hunters to go off on compound hunters, I mean, it is too easy to use cams and sights to shoot an animal, it is not sporting, force them into the general gun hunt :D

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Compound bows were well established in the hunting market long before most jurisdictions in North America even had any special archery only seasons,the tired old stickbow argument doesn’t hold any water,in fact,quite the opposite is true.Stickbow hunters actually owe a great deal of gratitude to the advent of compounds,because it was only after the advance of compound bows that bowhunting grew in popularity by leaps and bounds as many more hunters took up the sport and lobbied for archery only seasons.
Not wanting to share archery seasons with xbows has nothing to do with greed,it’s about preserving the extra opportunities and earlier seasons afforded to bowhunters,and the reason we get extra opps and an early head start is BECAUSE of the FACT that it is far more difficult then gun hunting and generally speaking has much lower success rates,and thus minimal effect on harvest quotas and management target goals.
When you allow xbows to piggyback their way into archery only seasons on the backs of the bowhunters that lobbied for said seasons to begin with,often as not the hunting pressure increases 300% or more as many more gunhunters are willing to make the transition to a user friendly xbow vs putting the time and effort into becoming proficient with compound or stickbow.If you can shoot a rifle,and have the vaguest clue about things like trajectory,you can be an xbow pro in about 2 minutes with 3 shots at a target.I don’t care how user friendly today’s compounds have become....NOBODY is punching 50y bullseyes the first day they ever pick up a compound.
Harvest success rates go through the roof with the huge increase in hunter participation,and then management strategies need to be adjusted accordingly as “bowhunters” are no longer accounting for a negligible percentage of the harvest,but rather now they are accounting for a significant perecentage of the total harvest.
It’s a lose/lose situation for bowhunters and gun hunters alike,as seasons and quotas need to be adjusted(read REDUCED) to maintain the desired level of harvest.
If xbows are so similar to and no advantage over compounds,please do explain why 75-80% of the “bowhunters” I’ve met in the woods when I lived in Ontario for 6 years were toting xbows?More then one of them had even commented to me that I must have rocks in my head or I’m just a sucker for punishment to be using a compound when I could be carrying a much more effective xbow instead.

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Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher

I don't think it can be argued that xbows don't increase hunter success rates. They do. Increased success rates = decrease in opportunity.

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THIS GUY GETS IT!!^^

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Originally Posted by Grinr

Compound bows were well established in the hunting market long before most jurisdictions in North America even had any special archery only seasons,the tired old stickbow argument doesn’t hold any water,in fact,quite the opposite is true.Stickbow hunters actually owe a great deal of gratitude to the advent of compounds,because it was only after the advance of compound bows that bowhunting grew in popularity by leaps and bounds as many more hunters took up the sport and lobbied for archery only seasons.

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I agree, anything that makes hunting easier for the hunter should be banned. We shouldn't allow innovation in our equipment that makes killing deer quicker, cleaner and more humanly. After all real hunters are the ones who work the hardest to get their kill, right? :silly:

Damn those old guys with weakening eyes and worn out shoulders, if you can't draw your bow anymore, time to hang up your camo :)

Since you mentioned it, they should never have allowed the use of scopes on rifles as it makes shooting deer much to easy and increases the harvest rate and lesson opportunities for others. Hunters are now what, close to 20% successful in the annual fall harvest, getting closer to what the MNR needs for their Deer Management goals and the need to keep issuing additional tags.

It's been awhile since we read that kind of sanctimonious twaddle on here....I thought maybe the old die hard bow hunters had finally got off their high horses and agreed that any equipment development that encouraged bow hunters in any category to get out in the woods more often was a goal ALL hunters should have.

I guess we still have those that like to create division in the sport, sad.

note: I hunt with both a compound and cross bow...so I know the difference. And I know which tool at my disposal to use in the conditions mother nature affords during the long 80 days of Bow only season. ie: I know that the best 'bow' to hunt deer with during the Christmas Bow only season is the crossbow...

It's been awhile since we read that kind of sanctimonious twaddle on here....I thought maybe the old die hard bow hunters had finally got off their high horses and agreed that any equipment development that encouraged bow hunters in any category to get out in the woods more often was a goal ALL hunters should have.

They tend to be a little more stubborn in Alberta. My uncle has lived there for 50 years and has only softened on the crossbow issue the last 5 years.

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Originally Posted by cantgetright

It's been awhile since we read that kind of sanctimonious twaddle on here....I thought maybe the old die hard bow hunters had finally got off their high horses and agreed that any equipment development that encouraged bow hunters in any category to get out in the woods more often was a goal ALL hunters should have.

They tend to be a little more stubborn in Alberta. My uncle has lived there for 50 years and has only softened on the crossbow issue the last 5 years.

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I think they need to have people chirp their gear and have their compound bows on the banning block because it is too easy, compared to traditional bows.

Anyone who hunts with any kind of bow needs to get close enough to get that shot on a deer, under 40 yards for both compound and crossbows. I honestly cannot say there is any difference shooting a high let off compound bow and a crossbow waiting for a shot, both cause stress to the muscles and give you the shakes. Yes you can use a rest with a crossbow but this idea that there is a significant difference is insane. You need to shoot to know where it hits but compound bows with peep sights are so much better than just a sight stuck on the riser as in the old days.

This is all nuts, crossbows are bows, it is right there in the name, an arrow sent down range by a string, end of story.

Wow,speaking of sanctimonious twaddle.....why is it that cross gunners are always on the defensive over their choice of taking the easier road,and so compelled to cite their “holier then thou” superior generosity in sharing the woods and encouraging increased participation,as if its their moral duty and obligation to bring new blood into the brethren?
Read the above posts again.
It is an indisputable FACT that allowing xbows encourages exponentially higher participation,as much as 300-400% higher,as so many more firearms hunters are much more willing and likely to make the transition to hunting with broadheads if they can use a xbow.
That may be all fine and dandy in Ontario if the end goal is to increase deer harvest,especially in the south where rifles aren’t allowed and shotgun season is short and limited entry draw.Xbows are an effective management tool,no disputing that.They are easy for any novice to master and almost immediately take to the field with reasonable hopes of success.More hunters afield that are proficient with their weapons is a tool to reach desired harvest levels.
Newsflash for ya.....what works for management goals in S.Ontario and crowded USA states does not and cannot be applied universally across the country.
NB,with its declining deer herd has very different deer management challenges then Ontario,and Alberta has very different challenges then both ON and NB in managing and preserving both bow and firearm opportunities for hunters.
Xbows increase harvest success SUBSTANTIALLY....that is a fact.
You can argue all you want that xbows are just as much challenge,need to get just as close,still need to be in bow range,be stealthy,etc etc and blah blah blah......but the FACT is that allowing xbows encourages a rise in participation by as much as 400%,and that alone has a substantial impact on harvest quota targets and management goals.
When you put 3-5x as many hunters afield,it only makes sense that overall harvest likely increases by 2-3x minimum,even if the actual success rate percentage falls,the overall total number of animals harvested rises.
When bow seasons become too efficient at harvesting game,because their are 3x as many hunters out there and 2 out of 3 are using easier and arguably more effective weapons,something gotta give when you are reaching and/or exceeding your management target goals.....so you either need to shorten the season,or limit participation,commonly through a draw/lottery system of some sort.
Either way,it is LOST opportunities for both bow and gun hunters as is the case here in Alberta.
ie;for decades Alberta bowhunters could buy OTC archery tags for mule deer.Rifle hunters have been on draw for many years in most WMUs.OTC archery tags were allowed because archery was considered low impact on the overall herd and made up a very small,almost negligible percentage of the total Hunter harvest.
As time went on,and archery equipment improved,and more and more rifle hunters became frustrated with the draw,they seen the opportunity to hunt MD every year by picking up a bow and learning how to use it.
Eventually,increased participation with better equipment resulted in archery hunters accounting for a much higher percentage of the overall harvest,which could no longer be ignored as insignificant.
Result.....we no longer have OTC archery mule deer tags in most WMUs,especially the better WMUs/regions that traditionally produced the best trophy class muleies,they are ALL on draw now for both bow and gun hunters.Not only that,but the traditionally lesser pressured WMUs that once offered OTC tags for both gun and bow hunters have gone to draw,because hunters turned their attention towards those WMUs once they LOST OPPORTUNITIES in the better units.
Lose lose lose all around for EVERYBODY.
The exact same thing has happened here with moose,where only a few short years ago there were DOZENS of WMUs that offered OTC archery tags,that number has been greatly reduced....Now just imagine if xbows were thrown into the mix and recognized as archery equipment in AB!!
Not only we would almost immediately lose ALL of the remaining moose and MD OTC archery opps,but with a 3-400% increase in bowhunters afield,we would see a considerable number of WMUs go to draw for Whitetail as well
LOSE LOSE LOSE LOST OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL!!
But oh hooray for us,look how great we are by encouraging more and more hunters to take up the silent sports by allowing xbows and increasing participation by 3-400%......all we would have done was shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot....and newsflash for ya.....allowing xbows does almost absolutely nothing to bring new hunters into the bloodsports,it merely encourages more gun hunters to have the confidence to try their luck at killing animals with broadheads.....so much for your “holier then thou/we need to encourage more hunters” drivel.
Am I a selfish bowhunter??
Goddamn right I am! The opportunity already exists for Johnny Newbie to pick up a bow and become proficient with it and join me in the early season bowhunting woods,and NO I am not in favour of allowing xbows just to make it easier for poor lil Johnny to be successful,while at the same time costing myself lost opportunities when OTC tags are completely eliminated and WT units go to draw because we 3x as many “bowhunters” afield.
I’m not limiting anybody’s opportunities,the opportunity already exists and I welcome anybody that wants to pick up a bow and learn how to use it join me,but don’t ask me to give up my existing opportunities just because you are too lazy to become a bowhunter and looking for a shortcut to success.

So your rebuttal is to admit the real reason you don’t like crossbow hunters is because you’re selfish..well at least your honest. HaHa…

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Originally Posted by Grinr

Am I a selfish bowhunter??
Goddamn right I am! The opportunity already exists for Johnny Newbie to pick up a bow and become proficient with it and join me in the early season bowhunting woods,and NO I am not in favour of allowing xbows just to make it easier for poor lil Johnny to be successful,while at the same time costing myself lost opportunities when OTC tags are completely eliminated and WT units go to draw because we 3x as many “bowhunters” afield.

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To Summarize the issue: You live in a province that has a Game Management Plan that is working so they are limiting the available tags thru a draw system because:

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from Alberta regs: “When demand for hunting opportunities becomes excessive, season length and bag limits are often insufficient to conserve a game resource or to ensure a quality hunting experience.

Although draws are used for specific wildlife management purposes (e.g., the goal in antlered mule deer draw areas is to develop a more balanced age structure in the herd by controlling the kill of bucks), other benefits include improved hunter success, increased opportunity to harvest a trophy animal, a more pleasant hunting experience with lower hunter densities, reduced disturbance of landowners, and a better distribution of the harvest.”

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And the real reason for your rant, is that you don’t want any more people (like crossbow hunters) applying for the draw because it will lesson your chances of winning the draw…

At least now the subterfuge is exposed and we can judge you for what you've admitted to being.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

So your rebuttal is to admit the real reason you don’t like crossbow hunters is because you’re selfish..well at least your honest. HaHa…



To Summarize the issue: You live in a province that has a Game Management Plan that is working so they are limiting the available tags thru a draw system because:


And the real reason for your rant, is that you don’t want any more people (like crossbow hunters) applying for the draw because it will lesson your chances of winning the draw…

At least now the subterfuge is exposed and we can judge you for what you've admitted to being.

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^^^^^^^^^Nailed it! ^^^^^^^^^

Yes they should sell less fishing licences, so I have a better shot at that elusive 50 inch Muskie I desperately want. LOL.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

So your rebuttal is to admit the real reason you don’t like crossbow hunters is because you’re selfish..well at least your honest. HaHa…



To Summarize the issue: You live in a province that has a Game Management Plan that is working so they are limiting the available tags thru a draw system because:


And the real reason for your rant, is that you don’t want any more people (like crossbow hunters) applying for the draw because it will lesson your chances of winning the draw…

At least now the subterfuge is exposed and we can judge you for what you've admitted to being.

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No,not at all.
Wow,you crossgun hunters are so thick headed it’s amazing that you even are able to get a comfortable cheek weld.
I don’t want xbows allowed in archery season because with the inevitable mass influx of firearms hunters that it attracts will mean the reduction and elimination of existing early bowhunting opportunities.
I’m not limiting ANYBODYS opportunity to participate,the opp already exists,buy a bow and have ater.
Why would bowhunters want to welcome selfish crossgunners to piggyback their way into the season that bowhunters lobbied for when it would result in a reduction and elimination of existing opportunities?