First time shooting with Black Horn 209

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Originally Posted by G.S.

A crud ring towards the top of the barrel is a very interesting find. Never heard of this before.
Did you try to figure-out what may be causing it?

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I hit the range today and shot 10 loads (60 grs of BH209).

The same problem cropped up. The crud ring at the top of the barrel was noticeable loading shot 7 and by shot 10, it took a huge effort to set the sabot with the ball starter. But once started, the Range rod had little difficulty seating the bullet.

I took some pics.

Pic 1 : I pushed the cleaning jag in about 4". The patch was completely full. Thick black carbon.

https://i.imgur.com/jj9302Zl.jpg

I then preceded to clean the rest of the barrel and you can see the carbon is pretty thick on the 1-3 patches. It took 6 patches to come out grey. That is not far off the cleaning I need with T7 or Pyrodex, but more than I was expecting for a powder like BH209, that claims it's cleaner.

Not sure why this is happening, I can't remember if this happening with T7, I guess the crud ring at the bottom of the barrel may have overshadowed the problem.

https://i.imgur.com/QtO38J6l.jpg

I guess I'll continue to swab the barrel between shots if I am shooting more than 5 loads.

Just wondering why 60grs when most are between 90grs - 110grs
Three of us in are group are extremely happy with blackhorn209. 15+shots and easy loading one guy with bone collector was 22shots using Barnes bullets

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Originally Posted by js4fn

Just wondering why 60grs when most are between 90grs - 110grs

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When I'm just plinking at 50 yds for the first time with a new powder to get the scope on paper etc, I use a light load, saves powder. I move up to a larger load when I move out to the 100.

I wouldn't have thought that less powder in a load would cause that much fouling, I read that BH209 was suppose to leave almost an 'ash' residue, but as you can see on the swabs, that is significant fouling for only 10 loads.

I'll bump it up to 80 the next time out and see what happens...maybe the extra heat will burn off the residue :)

I was looking for answers and found a few guys on other forums had the same issue with no answers yet.

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lastly, do you guys that use b/h209 have the tar like residue? its more of an oily soot not unlike the nasty residue coming out of an old diesel engine between exhaust connections or a leaking turbo.. sort of like a partially burned oil like crap... its not really noticeable at first but after about 10 rounds i notice it building up around the crown of the barrel and if i swab the patch comes out really nasty.

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edit add; I saw a few guys comments on other forums that do indicate the problem/solution is you have to use larger loads to prevent the crud build up.

So I've per loaded up some 80gr loads to see if that solves the problem.

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One of the things I have noticed in three different muzzys that I have set up with BH209 is that low charges of the powder do leave more fouling in the barrel. On my 45 cal guns that seemed to disappear when I got to 70 grains volume of the powder. On the 50 cal that point was about 80 grains volume. This powder likes speed and shoots very good when up around 110 - 120 grains volume.

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In my opinion, the benefits of BH209 do not outweigh those of T7. I found T7 is MUCH easier to use and most importantly MUCH more dependable to go "bang" when you pull the trigger.

I tried BH209 and did everything right, following their ignition instructions to a T, but still has spotty ignition performance at the range. I should have known better not to use it for hunting.

After losing a gorgeous buck because of delayed ignition, I wont touch the stuff anymore. Too fussy for me. Be careful of this if you use it!

Mike, it seems you are Powder starving your load. If you bump the powder charge to recommended amounts that ring should just disappear.

ML’s do funny things when you have to little powder. BH209 is the only powder I’d use if I was stuck only being able to use BP or substitutes.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Mike, it seems you are Powder starving your load. If you bump the powder charge to recommended amounts that ring should just disappear.

ML’s do funny things when you have to little powder. BH209 is the only powder I’d use if I was stuck only being able to use BP or substitutes.

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I'm tending to agree Jack, it seems the recommended load is 90-100 grs for BH209, but who knew there was a minimum ? :)

My hunting load for T7 is 85 grs, but for years I've commonly used 60 grs for plinking, never saw this problem, but I also swabbed between each shot because T7 was naturally dirtier....I wasn't expecting it would be required for BH209.

I've per-measured 80 and 90 gr. of BH209 for next shoot...see it that clears up the crud some. I don't have an issue with using 90 for a hunting load, but at the extra cost of BH209 I would like to find a smaller load for shooting holes in paper :)

[QUOTE]In my opinion, the benefits of BH209 do not outweigh those of T7. I found T7 is MUCH easier to use and most importantly MUCH more dependable to go "bang" when you pull the trigger.

I tried BH209 and did everything right, following their ignition instructions to a T, but still has spotty ignition performance at the range. I should have known better not to use it for hunting.

After losing a gorgeous buck because of delayed ignition, I wont touch the stuff anymore. Too fussy for me. Be careful of this if you use it!/QUOTE]
Actually BH209 is well known for being super reliable,even when its a little wet. I bet you where using a primer that was designed for muzzle loaders? 7 series powders etc. These wont work with BH209, you need a super hot primer, CCI and Federal 209 shotgun primers are recommended. I personally have been using BH209 for the last 5 years with no residue or ignition issues. Unlike the 7 series powders I switched from.

[/QUOTE]Actually BH209 is well known for being super reliable,even when its a little wet. I bet you where using a primer that was designed for muzzle loaders? 7 series powders etc. These wont work with BH209, you need a super hot primer, CCI and Federal 209 shotgun primers are recommended. I personally have been using BH209 for the last 5 years with no residue or ignition issues. Unlike the 7 series powders I switched from.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Fishhawk - Tried everything including what you suggested. I told you I followed instructions to the letter! This was not my first rodeo at muzzle loading. Maybe had a bad batch is a more likely explanation or powder has a problem with colder temperatures (reported by others too).

Loaded it the night before - super dry, super clean bore and breech hole. Next morning using CCL hot primer - it was cold- pulled the trigger at a buck - the primer fired, but nothing happened for 2 seconds, then the shot fired, after I moved the scope reticles off the buck - Grrrr! f#@k! LOL. Did this at the range too. should have known better then.

PS used a Thompson ML, on the OK list for BH209 supposedly.

Well I'm going to wrap up this trail. I hit the range with 80gr and 90 gr of BH209 the other day and came away a little happier. The crud ring at the crown did diminish with 80 gr and by 90gr wasn't noticeable.

I however found my groups opened up at 90gr so I backed off to 80 gr and they are were hitting much better. Considering I was getting even better groups at 60gr, I'm sure I'm going to find a sweet spot somewhere between 60-80 grs. Which isn't unexpected because my Traditions ML/ PR bullet combo like 85 grs of T7 and BH209 is suppose to be better, so it should use less, probably in the range of 70 grs by the time I'm done.

But it will mean that swabbing will be required, which I do with T7 so not a biggy.

All in All ...I won't buy BH209 again however. The added cost isn't worth the slight increase ( 75gr BH209 vs 85gr T7) in performance and the extra effort required to keep the residue at the crown in check while using a plinking load.

I stopped into GunMart yesterday and asked about the cost of BH209 and it's sells there for $75. (Note: I bought this bottle there two years ago for $62)

I stopped at CT in Brockville, their listed price for T7 is $55 but I got lucky and found one on sale for $46. Almost 1/2 the cost of BH209...so I'm going back to using it.

It was fun going thru the paces again with a new powder; surprising and frustrating all at the same time...but never a bad day on a range making smoke.

https://i.imgur.com/jB27yNtm.jpg

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Originally Posted by js4fn

Just wondering why 60grs when most are between 90grs - 110grs
Three of us in are group are extremely happy with blackhorn209. 15+shots and easy loading one guy with bone collector was 22shots using Barnes bullets

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Resurrecting the old thread .....

Last week, I had tried Barnes T-EZ 250gr with both 100 and 110 gr of BH209 that apparently didn't perform well in my rifle (TC Bone Collector). I intend to venture out again and try different volumes.

My rifle shoots both TC Shockwaves and Hornady SST 250gr very well with 110gr of BH209. Presently, I have that sighted in 2in high at 100m.
https://i.imgur.com/E4eV5JS.jpg

Old target from a few years back when I had first started using BH209 ...
https://i.imgur.com/vCakg9G.png

Didn't have much luck with Federal BOR Lock 270gr either (seats easily even though the bore on my TC is quite tight) - tried everything from 80-120gr BH209 going up in 5gr increments. Target shown is with 100 and 110gr of powder. I really liked that bullet .....
https://i.imgur.com/rRSI5mu.jpg
That ought to read 270gr ....