If she decides to divorce you she will know pretty fast. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
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If she decides to divorce you she will know pretty fast. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Nope. :)
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Originally Posted by Gilroy
I must have missed that post. I haven’t seen anyone blaming anyone here. But, carry on….like the song says…”haters gonna hate”Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjyb
I can recall gunsmith shops that didn't have security cameras. If there were security cameras at Kotanko's shop there would be no point covering it up as the family and by extension their legal counsel would know about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
The SIU report is an extremely simplistic response to a very complex situation.
Seems like it’s all hinged on the civilian witness that has been “ handled “ pretty much only by they shooters colleagues.
Wouldn’t be the first time a witness was encouraged to see things differently by police or crown.
Part of the problem here is the archaic way police handle business these days.
It seems the only tools they have are scaring people and or violence to get people to do what they want.
When the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
This type of “ soft entry “ which really has nothing soft about it and dynamic and no knock warrants are excellent examples of what is mentioned above.
It doesn’t just put criminals at risk but civilians in the residences have been shot by accident by police and police have been shot while executing them.
I remember one in Montreal with a no knock and the resident shot and killed an officer and beat the charges because they didn’t announce themselves.
Also 2 RCMP shot at the door in Alberta.
Once it’s done, even if someone is accidentally shot while executing the warrant.
The SIU won’t charge the officer because it was an accident while executing there duties and not criminally responsible and the department won’t change the archaic way of doing things.
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It has been several times mentioned here-that after the shooting, the witness(key person to know the "outsider"side of this whole sad story)was sat down by the police and placed in handcuffs.
With few of our members here,with policing background-can someone contemplate on this,rather interesting move?
Is this a standard practice- someone just witnessing (as an innocent bystander)the likely most violent and tragic chapter in his life-to make him sit on the ground(awkward at best)and place in handcuffs?
I would say the witness was handcuffed for safety reason's for the officers involved and thus was detained as part of the search process. I have been away from the street a long time, but with the proliferation of weapons today especially guns and it being a gun shop, seems pretty prudent. Most often on the dozens of search warrants I have been involved in everybody inside a searched premises would have been cuffed, again for safety reasons, to prevent loss of evidence. Places that are searched generally do not contain nice people and depending on where you are searching, places like a good crack house, you might end up with many arrest's not even associated with the actual search warrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
People inside wanted on bench warrants from other area's or jurisdictions, stolen property...
Could also be that the witness was also the original informant and handcuffing him made it look good?
Trust and accountability, two words that I personally feel do not apply as they should or used to in the police services of Canada anymore. This is a broad brush stroke but over the years I have seen a steady erosion of citizen rights, and am not sure why or how it can be corrected.
Many might feel different, but we are losing their right to peacefully state our opinion without punshment.
John
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...ce-allege.html
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Killed Ontario gunsmith trafficked gun used in Scarborough teen’s murder, police sources allege
By Wendy GillisStaff Reporter
Jim RankinStaff Reporter
Mon., March 7, 20224 min. read
Toronto police allege the gun used to kill a 16-year-old boy in Scarborough last summer was traced back to Ontario gunsmith Rodger Kotanko — and officers intended to charge him with criminal negligence causing death for trafficking the gun, police sources told the Star.
Instead, Kotanko, 70, was fatally shot in a raid on his Simcoe, Ont., workshop last November. Last week, Ontario’s police watchdog, the Special Investigations Unit (SIU), cleared the unnamed officer who killed Kotanko, saying that officer should not be criminally charged because he fired to “protect himself” after Kotanko refused to drop a gun he had pointed at police.
Officers with Toronto police’s Gun and Gang Task Force went to Kotanko’s residence, near Port Dover, on Nov. 3 to execute a search warrant, believing the skilled gunsmith had milled off the serial numbers on two restricted handguns registered to his company and then illegally transferred their ownership. Police allege the guns ultimately ended up in the hands of two young Toronto residents.
According to two police sources who spoke to the Star on condition of anonymity, police say one of those guns was used in the July 3, 2021, slaying of Caden Francis, 16, who was shot to death near Kennedy Road and Antrim Crescent in Scarborough — allegedly by two other teens.
The sources said ballistics testing conducted at Ontario’s Centre of Forensic Sciences connected the gun used to kill Francis with a firearm police allege was originally owned by Kotanko, from which he’d removed the serial number using a milling machine.
Police intended to lay the rare charge of criminal negligence causing death against Kotanko for allegedly trafficking the firearm used to kill Francis, the sources said.
A police source alleged four more of Kotanko’s guns are unaccounted for.
Lawyer Michael Smitiuch speaks in front of family and friends of Rodger Kotanko on his front lawn on Nov. 18, 2021. The Kotanko family is suing Toronto police over his death.
In a statement Monday, Kotanko family lawyer Mike Smitiuch said it is “unfortunate that Toronto Police have resorted to smearing Rodger Kotanko’s reputation when he is not alive to defend himself.”
The family has alleged in a lawsuit filed earlier this year that Kotanko’s death could have been avoided if Toronto police had “properly planned and executed the search warrant,” Smitiuch said.
He added: “No matter how they attempt to portray him, Rodger did not deserve to die at the hands of Toronto police the way he did.”
The family is scheduled to give a press conference Tuesday to respond to the SIU’s decision to clear Toronto police in Kotanko’s shooting death.
Search warrant documents unsealed at the request of the Star previously revealed that late last year, police separately recovered two Norinco 1911A1 .45 calibre handguns they say they linked back to Kotanko. One was recovered in August 2021, allegedly from a young person who crashed a stolen Mercedes in Scarborough, and the other in October 2021, when officers with North Bay were investigating a “possible kidnapping” and pulled over a vehicle, and a youth was allegedly found to be in possession a handgun.
In both cases, the document says, the guns’ serial numbers appeared to have been “professionally” removed by a milling machine, as had other markings on the firearms’ slides. In the majority of cases, serial numbers are crudely removed with a file or rotary tool, the document said — not by a milling machine.
According to the search warrant documents, police were able to restore the serial numbers, finding the weapons had been registered to D.A.R.K. International Trading Company, one of two businesses owned by Kotanko. The other business he owned was R.K. Custom Guns.
The markings on the slides were also restored to reveal cursive “RK” letters on both, and “RK Custom” on the North Bay gun.
An experienced and licensed gunsmith with a certificate to acquire non-restricted, restricted and prohibited firearms, Kotanko had “legally bought, sold, manufactured successfully transferred hundreds of firearms” during his career and would have known the rules around storing and reporting “lost or stolen” firearms, wrote Det. Const. Richard Haines, the affiant on the search warrant documents.
Kotanko would have reason to attempt to obliterate the serial numbers and markings and would have a milling machine to do so, Haines wrote.
Francis died from multiple gunshot wounds on July 3, one of 46 fatal shootings in Toronto in 2021. Two teens — a boy and girl, both 15, and who cannot be named under the provisions of the Youth Criminal Justice Act — have each been charged with first-degree murder in Francis’s death.
Toronto youth workers have expressed concern that it has become increasingly common for young people to get access to guns.
The charge police intended to lay against Kotanko over Francis’s death — criminal negligence causing death — has rarely been laid in relation to the trafficking of a firearm later used to kill someone.
Toronto police did so for the first time last year when investigators laid the charge against convicted gun trafficker Jeffrey Gilmour, whose firearm was allegedly linked to the Dec. 2019 shooting death of Peter Petrov Simov. The case is still before the courts.
Well I believe that police officers today are not the same cut as police officers 30 years ago. Back then there were minimum standards for practical things like height and weight, I find officers today are not well trained in either the law and they do not have any empathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjyb
But the policing environment is also very different with everyone having access to 911 and the volume of calls increasing and the complexities of policing a multi cultural society. Its simply a much more difficult job.
In relation to peacefully stating your opinion without punishment the exact opposite is true. Thirty years ago the little demonstration on Parliament Hill would not have happened. A Chief of Police would get his marching orders from above, would know that he was backed up and the riot squad would be sent in probably the very first day. Everybody would be arrested and locked up for breach of the peace and most would smarten up right away.