Ontario gunsmith shot and killed by police

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Not when you know what “allege” means in that context..

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Allege and believe are strewn through that news article..... not "facts "

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I would say the witness was handcuffed for safety reason's for the officers involved and thus was detained as part of the search process. I have been away from the street a long time, but with the proliferation of weapons today especially guns and it being a gun shop, seems pretty prudent. Most often on the dozens of search warrants I have been involved in everybody inside a searched premises would have been cuffed, again for safety reasons, to prevent loss of evidence. Places that are searched generally do not contain nice people and depending on where you are searching, places like a good crack house, you might end up with many arrest's not even associated with the actual search warrant.
People inside wanted on bench warrants from other area's or jurisdictions, stolen property...

Could also be that the witness was also the original informant and handcuffing him made it look good?

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Good points , however if all this is factual as far as the concepts being implied , then perhaps excecuting the search warrent away from his shop may have been a bit more prudent. as well as using the body cams every officer wears on the front of the uniform.

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Do we know if the first/main officer was plainclothes? That would have certainly confused Kontako even more than the sudden burst in.

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They were wearing vests with POLICE across the front. They also identified themselves verbally….before and during the entry…it’s all in the report.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

They were wearing vests with POLICE across the front. They also identified themselves verbally….before and during the entry…it’s all in the report.

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It is time to make those cameras mandatory across the board, even though some forces do not want them. There needs to be more than just what people say in the report but what is recorded. This is not to prove that the police were in the wrong but rather to build back the confidence in the police forces.

Remember that kid that was alone in the street car who was blown away by a cop who was not in any danger at all? Imagine if there were no cameras there, nothing would have been done to him.

I think there’s a lot of mistrust in society these days. Of course I’m going to blame social media for planting the seed, and the lack of logic in the population, willing to germinate said seed. But I do think people forget that our first responders run toward the danger, while others run away. There’s a lack of respect for that position imo. Everyone likes to be a keyboard detective after the fact. To put the publics mind at ease they should make body cams mandatory and that way there will be little basis to refute different claims.

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Originally Posted by Fox

It is time to make those cameras mandatory across the board, even though some forces do not want them. There needs to be more than just what people say in the report but what is recorded. This is not to prove that the police were in the wrong but rather to build back the confidence in the police forces.

Remember that kid that was alone in the street car who was blown away by a cop who was not in any danger at all? Imagine if there were no cameras there, nothing would have been done to him.

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At one time, I would have been against the use of cameras, but not any more. I believe they should be on every officer. They would eliminate far more problems than they would cause ! I think the big issue is cost, and the retention of recordings. I believe they will become mandatory in the not too distant future. But then, if this thread is any indication, there will be those who will accuse the police of manipulating the video evidence…

Interesting article on body cams…..

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...-thomas-police

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

But then, if this thread is any indication, there will be those who will accuse the police of manipulating the video evidence…

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No offence Rick-the Policing job is not easy, and has many challenges associated with it.

At the other hand-while a plumber will eventually "flood a house" when making a mistake- a person involved in Policing has a lot higher magnitude of ramification ,if "issues" arise while doing the job.
Since there were many instances in the past,where policing job was botched(like and other job can ,and will be botched, here and there)the public lost a lot of trust. This is just a fact.


Yet, because of the ramification of "botching" a policing job can and will have major impact on individuals-it is in interest of both parties, to see clear picture.


Police man and women are just as us-humans.With all,what comes with it.

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Originally Posted by gbk

No offence Rick-the Policing job is not easy, and has many challenges associated with it.

At the other hand-while a plumber will eventually "flood a house" when making a mistake- a person involved in Policing has a lot higher magnitude of ramification ,if "issues" arise while doing the job.
Since there were many instances in the past,where policing job was botched(like and other job can ,and will be botched, here and there)the public lost a lot of trust. This is just a fact.


Yet, because of the ramification of "botching" a policing job can and will have major impact on individuals-it is in interest of both parties, to see clear picture.


Police man and women are just as us-humans.With all,what comes with it.

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I agree totally. The role of independent oversight is imperative. However, there will always be those who second guess or totally disregard and disbelieve the findings of those independent investigations.

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Originally Posted by Fox

It is time to make those cameras mandatory across the board, even though some forces do not want them. There needs to be more than just what people say in the report but what is recorded. This is not to prove that the police were in the wrong but rather to build back the confidence in the police forces.

Remember that kid that was alone in the street car who was blown away by a cop who was not in any danger at all? Imagine if there were no cameras there, nothing would have been done to him.

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That idea is fine in a Utopian world which none of us live in. If officers have to operate in a pro active fashion, intercept crime before it might happen they have always needed a little wiggle room. If they cannot operate in that "grey area" lots of crime will happen.

An example, lets say I, am in a scout car and patrolling a middle class residential area in the middle of the day. I spot a guy wearing a backpack, he is dressed pretty shabbily and he is checking out homes pretty closely as he passes. So your experience say's this guy is out of place and his behavior is suspicious as he looks like he is casing the homes. So what have you got "legally" to stop this guy and ask him a few questions. NOT MUCH.

Without the camera a good street cop will pull this guy over and ask him a few questions about where he is headed and what he/she is doing in the area. With the camera probably easier for the cop to head over to Timmies grab a coffee and donut and wait a few hours until the call comes in for a residential break enter and theft and then pop over and take the report.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

That idea is fine in a Utopian world which none of us live in. If officers have to operate in a pro active fashion, intercept crime before it might happen they have always needed a little wiggle room. If they cannot operate in that "grey area" lots of crime will happen.

An example, lets say I, am in a scout car and patrolling a middle class residential area in the middle of the day. I spot a guy wearing a backpack, he is dressed pretty shabbily and he is checking out homes pretty closely as he passes. So your experience say's this guy is out of place and his behavior is suspicious as he looks like he is casing the homes. So what have you got "legally" to stop this guy and ask him a few questions. NOT MUCH.

Without the camera a good street cop will pull this guy over and ask him a few questions about where he is headed and what he/she is doing in the area. With the camera probably easier for the cop to head over to Timmies grab a coffee and donut and wait a few hours until the call comes in for a residential break enter and theft and then pop over and take the report.

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Unfortunately, what you describe has now been made illegal by the Wynne government.