Don't be shootin coon hounds in Arkansas

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

OK Dyth . My cat is sitting beside your car and your dog chases it into my yard . Shall I shoot your dog ?
This is exactly how silly your point is becoming .
TD

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TD,

At NO point have I ever said shooting the dog is acceptable. Stop trying to attribute that type of thinking to me.

I will use your example. First of all, yes my dog can and will chase cats (I am not sure any dog out who wouldn't lol). Second of all, my dog doesn't go off leash unsupervised, I know specifically where he is at all times. Third, my dog has been trained to be recalled. If he did chase your cat onto your property, I would recall him immediately, I would then apologize to you for having poor control over my dog and let you know I will try my utmost to not have him violate your property lines again.

You are making up silly examples of how I apparantly would justify shooting a dog when it violates a property line. I don't have a problem with a dog violating a property line as long as the situation was rectified and an apology was given. In this circumstance with the coon hounds, rectifying the situation should mean finding out who the landowner of a posted property and asking his permission to go on his land to retrieve your hound from his property. I think that is an acceptable solution to this problem. Simply putting your guns away and then tresspassing isn't. The hound owner tresspassing does not excuse the landowner's actions.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by welsh

Well, Dyth has not suggested that the landowner had the right to shoot the dog, only that the hunters could have been more responsible re contacting the landowner.

However ... in reply to that point, I suggest that if they had got hold of him, his likely response would have been "Stay the hell off my land and by the way I'm a-gonna shoot yer dogs."

There was a case in Montana, where people are pretty militant about trespassers, where a landowner not only shot a cougar hound but then refused to let the owner retrieve the carcass. (The landowner paid a hefty fine.) Some people are just jerks, and there is no dealing with them.

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The landowner could have definately said that which at that point, it becomes a property protection issue and the police can become involved. Even if the landowner threatened to keep the dog, that is theft and the police can become involved.

But that isn't the situation we are talking about. The hound owners had no legal right to cross that landowner's property line. They willfully ignored the posted signs and disrespected the landowners wishes that no one come onto his land unless they have written permission from him. How many of us would be ok with that if the situation were reversed?

Dyth

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

The landowner could have definately said that which at that point, it becomes a property protection issue and the police can become involved.

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But the outcome is just the same.

Your point is well taken re showing respect for a landowner, but my point is simply that the hunters' actions probably had nothing to do with the outcome here. The landowner is clearly a nutbar.

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Originally Posted by welsh

But the outcome is just the same.

Your point is well taken re showing respect for a landowner, but my point is simply that the hunters' actions probably had nothing to do with the outcome here. The landowner is clearly a nutbar.

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Agreed the landowner is a nutbar.

As for the hunter's actions having nothing to do with the outcome, I am not entirely convinced. Who knows if they had talked to the surrounding landowners and explained the situation, things might have turned out differently. At the very least the hound owners would have known to stay clear of this clown't property.

Dyth

Well Dyth we all have reasonable expectations of what is right . The landowner in question may have just come along and noticed a truck while the lads retrieved their hounds . Your dog could be just a pup chasing my cat and stayed at the base of a tree in my yard while I was away at work . Certainly you would come get him before I returned . I know your not onside with the shooter but like you I can come up with scenarios of what could have,should have etc be done . Obviously the landowner was a threat to the hounds . I would do anything to retrieve him before he was shot by even trespassing if need be . I am not a trespasser nor do I think just having hounds gives me the right to trespass but most dog owners are attached emotionally too, similar to the love of a child .

This clown had every intention to shoot these hounds from the get go is my opinion . I think for most this would cause us to attempt to retrieve them with the least amount of hoopla . On the sly so to speak . Just like in my case . Landowner said he would shoot our hounds on sight . I'm not going to wait around for him to return or anything . I'm going to trespass, grab them and get the h'ell out of dodge and hope I don't get caught . Most houndlovers know to avoid issues with landowners . We don't look for confrontations . These dogs may have travelled a great distance . Reasonable precautions can be taken but there is no set guideline to follow .

Yes I get worked up over this topic and even in my misspent youth been known to throw down with trespassers .LOL That's the evil of the beast . I can't help that . LOL But I also understand hounds and dogs in general too . Mind you I've always been reasonable as a landowner and yes humble and apologetic too if our hounds trespassed .

Should I look at this from both sides ? Maybe to be PC I should but nobody can ever accuse me of being PC . LOL This is cut and dried for me .


TD

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Originally Posted by welsh

But the outcome is just the same.

Your point is well taken re showing respect for a landowner, but my point is simply that the hunters' actions probably had nothing to do with the outcome here. The landowner is clearly a nutbar.

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Your right Welsh and I respect the Dyth's point also in regards to respecting landowners . I've been on both sides of the situation . It's a situation that makes us respond passionately .

Dyth . I take things like this to heart because I have had boots on the ground but when it comes down to it , I don't dislike you for taking a landowners thoughts of trespassing as your point . I just HATE it when it comes forward in situations such as this . LOL


TD

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Originally Posted by terrym

The hound had been retrieved and was leashed when the land owner basically executed it. He then demanded that the other hound which was already crated in a vehicle be taken out to be executed also. I can't believe there wasn't a loss of human life in this. I would say the landowner is alive only because he was the only one armed at the time.

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It must have been a semi auto gun, because if Newby had a slow stroker, a boltgun, or a single, somebody would have checked Mr Newby's oil during the cycle.

There is now legislation in a particular State for almost this exact scenario except it was the lawyer with land and some deer dogs being shot.

The hunters did EVERYTHING correct! The most important thing is they took their guns to the truck before returning to the dogs. If it wasn't for this sick maniac they would have retrieved their dogs, the racoon lives, and all is good.
This poor dog, doing what it was bred to do is executed in front of its helpless owner. Remember there was only one gun at the scene.
This nutbar deserves to be made an example of with a severe penalty.

Given the state of affairs wrt to gun ownership and all that stuff,it's a wonder no one's already shot the SOB.

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Well Dyth we all have reasonable expectations of what is right . The landowner in question may have just come along and noticed a truck while the lads retrieved their hounds . Your dog could be just a pup chasing my cat and stayed at the base of a tree in my yard while I was away at work . Certainly you would come get him before I returned . I know your not onside with the shooter but like you I can come up with scenarios of what could have,should have etc be done . Obviously the landowner was a threat to the hounds . I would do anything to retrieve him before he was shot by even trespassing if need be . I am not a trespasser nor do I think just having hounds gives me the right to trespass but most dog owners are attached emotionally too, similar to the love of a child .

This clown had every intention to shoot these hounds from the get go is my opinion . I think for most this would cause us to attempt to retrieve them with the least amount of hoopla . On the sly so to speak . Just like in my case . Landowner said he would shoot our hounds on sight . I'm not going to wait around for him to return or anything . I'm going to trespass, grab them and get the h'ell out of dodge and hope I don't get caught . Most houndlovers know to avoid issues with landowners . We don't look for confrontations . These dogs may have travelled a great distance . Reasonable precautions can be taken but there is no set guideline to follow .

Yes I get worked up over this topic and even in my misspent youth been known to throw down with trespassers .LOL That's the evil of the beast . I can't help that . LOL But I also understand hounds and dogs in general too . Mind you I've always been reasonable as a landowner and yes humble and apologetic too if our hounds trespassed .

Should I look at this from both sides ? Maybe to be PC I should but nobody can ever accuse me of being PC . LOL This is cut and dried for me .


TD

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Your right Welsh and I respect the Dyth's point also in regards to respecting landowners . I've been on both sides of the situation . It's a situation that makes us respond passionately .

Dyth . I take things like this to heart because I have had boots on the ground but when it comes down to it , I don't dislike you for taking a landowners thoughts of trespassing as your point . I just HATE it when it comes forward in situations such as this . LOL


TD

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TD,

I have multiple times voiced my respect for property lines. I am not sure how many more times I need to tell you that before it registers in your brain. You make up scenarios like I would leave a pup alone treeing a cat on your property and then retrieve it without your knowledge. In reality, my dog doesn't go off leash unless he has an e-collar on him so I can ensure their recall is 100%. I consider that to be a good dog owner's responsibility. So no my dog/pup won't be treeing your cat for hours on end while you are at work waiting for me to retrieve it 5 minutes before you get home. You probably won't believe that statement or try to come up with a scenario where you are certain I am not a good/respectful dog owner but it is the truth. You seem to think I have no love for my hunting buddy because I wouldn't break the law for him while you would. In truth, I have the foresight not to let the situation get to the point where I have to break the law.

At the end of the day, while there are circumstances where breaking the law is unavoidable and permissable, this situation wasn't one of them and I will tell you why. The hound owners had no knowledge of the landowner or his reaction to their hound being on his property. They didn't ask. You seem to be desparately trying to justify that they would be allowed to get their hounds by trespassing based on your experiences with a landowner. I am saying they had no justification to trespass because they had no foreknowledge of the consequences of having their hound on that landowner's property. We now can logically argue the landowner was probably going to shoot the hound but when the hound owners decided to trespass, they didn't have that knowledge and that is why they were wrong trespassing.

This is my last post in this thread. You seem to want to invent situations where it is acceptable to trespass instead of wanting to talk about this situation. While I also respect your opinions and thoughts, I have said my opinion about this andyou obviously don't welcome it.

Dyth