A Tundra Swan Season In Ontario

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Dead Ringer ... since a Tundra Swan season would be a limited (tag only) harvest by selected waterfowl hunters the "species identification course" that I had suggested would only be required for the Tundra Swan hunters ... I thought that was obvious but "thank you" for clarifying that to others. I also agree with you that the identification between a Trumpeter Swan and a Tundra Swan is harder than between a Black Duck and a Hen Mallard in early (limited) light ... that was just an example with new (and not so new) waterfowl hunters.

Note: For those "waterfowlers" who are interested you can print off an identification brochure from The Trumpeter Swan Society web site ... Trumpeter Swan vs Mute Swan vs Tundra Swan vs Snow Goose. I do however believe that all "waterfowlers" should get to know the basic differences between these species.

2) Fenelon ... I do share your concern as it is valid and I have also thought of the scenario that you have described ... the hunter will not be charged for the incidental harvest of that Trumpeter Swan since the bird is technically a "legal" bird but he does bring the Tundra Swan season one bird closer to a "closure" once that five bird limit is reached in that particular state.

Note: I understand (in spite of the unregulated native "subsistence harvest" in Canada and the United States as well as this incidental harvest) that both the Rocky Mountain TRSW Population and the Interior TRSW Population have doubled recently (from 5,000 to 10,000 each) while the Pacific Coast TRSW Population has only made a small gain (from 25,000 to 26,000). I have been advised by The Trumpeter Swan Society that wintering habitat is now limiting the growth of the Pacific Coast TRSW Population. I think that it is just a matter of time before we see a small limited Trumpeter Swan season on the west coast (since few Tundra Swans use that route) to manage that specific TRSW population and the effect on their wintering habitat.

As for your comments regarding the Snow Goose season ... those "idiots" would probably not pass the "species identification course" that I have suggested and consequently would not be eligible for a Tundra Swan tag ... issue solved. Furthermore is there a reason why your comments about "regulations and enforcement officers" regarding the second Black Duck scenario could not or would not apply to a Tundra Swan season?

3) Drake Mallard 12 ... I am glad that you agree ... so are you interested in a Tundra Swan season?

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome

Keep up the great work Jerome!!!! I can't believe that there are "hunters" of any sorts against this proposal. I for one can't wait for the day when I can wrap a tag around a swans leg! Just love all the naysayers in this thread that obviously don't have a clue whats going on, our swan harvest quota was given away to the States so they can shoot them!!! The birds are getting killed anyways so why not have more hunting opportunities for us Ontario hunters instead of letting someone else harvest our quota???? Makes absolutely no sense to go against this proposal even if you really have no interest in hunting them yourself.......... take a second and think about it guys!! Give your heads a shake!!

I have zero interest in the dove season, does that mean I should of been opposed to it??? Hell no!! I support all hunting opportunities, fight the good fight guys why go against each other?? Then you have an idiot that says I'd have to drive an hr to kill one so I have no interest???? Pure genius!!!! You know how many miles some guys put on in one year to kill birds???

I saw for the first time this season a dozen tundras sitting in a field just up the road from me.
I really have thought long and hard about this and i was wrong. the population is getting larger , still in the area i hunt not a tonne, i am sure if they opened the season i could bag a few of them. and the experience would be different shooting a monsterous bird like that.
i think what your doing jerome takes a lot of dedication and hard work, and as the waterfowl community we need to take notice to that whether we as indivuals agree or not. and i hope jerome you get the answers you need and the waterfowl community gets a swan hunt in the future.

I am heading north for snows never thought i would do that, cant knock something until you try it atleast once.

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Originally Posted by duckslayer

Keep up the great work Jerome!!!! I can't believe that there are "hunters" of any sorts against this proposal. I for one can't wait for the day when I can wrap a tag around a swans leg! Just love all the naysayers in this thread that obviously don't have a clue whats going on, our swan harvest quota was given away to the States so they can shoot them!!! The birds are getting killed anyways so why not have more hunting opportunities for us Ontario hunters instead of letting someone else harvest our quota???? Makes absolutely no sense to go against this proposal even if you really have no interest in hunting them yourself.......... take a second and think about it guys!! Give your heads a shake!!

I have zero interest in the dove season, does that mean I should of been opposed to it??? Hell no!! I support all hunting opportunities, fight the good fight guys why go against each other?? Then you have an idiot that says I'd have to drive an hr to kill one so I have no interest???? Pure genius!!!! You know how many miles some guys put on in one year to kill birds???

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Finally, a response that makes sense.

I have no idea why some guys are so against this. Its a hunting opportunity. As hunters, we should all stand beside each other, whether its a hunt you want to do or not. Heck, I ONLY hunt waterfowl and turkey.....I couldn't care less about any other hunting.....but I support it all. Why wouldn't I?

One thing is for sure. I'd love to watch a tundra drop from 30yds up, and splash down in the decoys!!!!
:thumbup:
S.

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Originally Posted by mastercaster

Jerome,

Its great to see such an informed, Persistent, Dedicated Hunter working so hard for what a large portion of the waterfowling community only wishes they could do. Hats off to you "Buddy Boy".

Your well spoken responses above show your the right one for the job! I look forward to tasting some day, Tundra Swan and Sandhill Crane. When I do - I'll be thanking you alone, not the rest of the do-gooders, or nay-sayers!

Regards,

MC

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xx2 I have my 100 bucks ready lets get this done.

re: As for the comments regarding the Snow Goose season ... those "idiots" would probably not pass the "species identification course" that I have suggested and consequently would not be eligible for a Tundra Swan tag ... issue solved. Furthermore is there a reason why your comments about "regulations and enforcement officers" regarding the second Black Duck scenario could not or would not apply to a Tundra Swan season?"

Ï just took the US online swan hunter mandatory course, and assuming that the Ontario course would be similar, I can assure you that it is impossible to not pass the course !. It's nothing more than a due diligence formality for anyone wanting to apply for a permit. The survey only stresses ID features for adult, white plumage birds, and the bill profile, lore spot, eye characteristic key features are merely good for a passive birder who would have an opportunity to glass the birds at close range, with good optics, and good lighting. Nothing that is stressed in the online ID course is very practical for the average hunter who will encounter these birds in an actual hunting situation. You'd have to have swans on the water, within 80yds of your blind, before any of the ID features could be used to positively ID the birds. You'd probably only be able to positively ID the adults if they swam into the decoys, and for me, this would not be worthy of a shot. The swan course omits juveniles, because they are almost impossible to separate until you have a bird in hand (basically it's a bill measurement). The vocalization part of the course is of little value, based on my personal observations of both species. I've personally only heard them call just prior to take-off, and only shortly after taking air. They are usually silent during a pass by the blind.

I'm not sure why there is continual reference to the Pacific and Rocky Mt. (interior) Trumpeter populations, as this is irrelevant for a proposed Ontario hunt. There were less than 500 Trumpeters in Ontario back in 2005. It took 40 years to successfully reintroduce them back into their former range. They are by no means common. I live in Fenelon Falls, and I only know of three breeding pairs within a 1.5 hour drive of where I live (1 pair on the McLaren's Creek/Goose Bay marsh on Sturgeon Lake, and two confirmed breeding pairs on Lake Scugog). The Sturgeon Lake pair established a breeding territory for two years prior to successfully breeding, so they were prob. 4-6 yrs old when they first successfully hatched-out young. They've fledged cygnets for three successive years now. As a waterfowl hunter, trapper, and conservationist, I do not see the sense in "risking"these birds to become collateral incidental harvest during a Tundra hunt. Definitely not a good trade-off in my books.
Regarding your comment about the shot Trumpeter being the equivalent offence as a second Black - I don't think any charge would undo the damage that's occurred once the bird has been shot. I don't see the sense in taking that chance.

^............ You make some compelling arguments.

As an amateur birder, biologist and avid waterfowler, I too would have an extremely difficult time identifying these birds on the wing, in flight at dawn or dusk if I had not heard them calling before hand.

I applaud Buddy Boys efforts but in the effort of conservation of the Trumpeter swan, I dont think I would support his proposal. That said, if the proposal were for mute swans only, I would be all over it.

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Originally Posted by jobbershunting

^............ You make some compelling arguments.

As an amateur birder, biologist and avid waterfowler, I too would have an extremely difficult time identifying these birds on the wing, in flight at dawn or dusk if I had not heard them calling before hand.

I applaud Buddy Boys efforts but in the effort of conservation of the Trumpeter swan, I dont think I would support his proposal. That said, if the proposal were for mute swans only, I would be all over it.

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The problem with this type of thinking is it creates a bystander effect in others. Let's take the spring bear hunt, I don't bear hunt (and there are more than likely others out there who don't as well) but I support the bear hunt because I would like to make sure the people who want the spring bear hunt re-instated are there to support something which I want to accomplish (whatever that might be).

I don't think I will ever hunt Tundra Swans either. However, I will support this initative because in five or ten years, I might want to try it and would like to have the option to hunt swans. If there is a sustainable hunting population, the question is why wouldn't hunters want to support a hunt even if they don't want to partake in it? No doubt there will be problems and mistakes will happen but any new endeavour has them. Identification issues will no doubt happen but it will be up to individual hunters to id birds and make sure they are legal to shoot like any other game animal we hunt.

Dyth

I don't hunt Doves not worth my time. They should ban that. I only hunt geese until Dec, let's ban it. I don't hunt Spring bear let's ban it.

If you can't support other hunters we truly should just ban hunting altogether.

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Originally Posted by jobbershunting

^............ You make some compelling arguments.

As an amateur birder, biologist and avid waterfowler, I too would have an extremely difficult time identifying these birds on the wing, in flight at dawn or dusk if I had not heard them calling before hand.

I applaud Buddy Boys efforts but in the effort of conservation of the Trumpeter swan, I dont think I would support his proposal. That said, if the proposal were for mute swans only, I would be all over it.

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Here is the webpage for the swan hunter mandatory course in the States, in case you wish to take the test http://www.utah-hunt.com/utswancourse/. Dyth - I too would openly support a Tundra hunt if there were no Trumpeters here. In fact, it would probably be a good thing, as half the birds shot would probably be Mutes! For the folks who think I am overplaying the idea that a species recognition course would be pretty much useless, I ask that you take a road trip to Presquille this fall. Go to Weller's Bay off Salt Point. Third week in November, up until the second week in December, when the back marsh has frozen. All three species of swan will be present, often in good numbers. Book a lake blind in the park if you can, and you're viewing will be better, and you'll prob. have some swans scout your outer diver dekes. Good luck picking out the adult Tundras. Forget about separating the cygnets. So what it boils down to is this, and it's a corker - knowing what's gone in to bringing the Trumpter back to this province, are you willing to kill these birds, as an acceptable consequence of having a Tundra hunt?