Definition of Sharing a firearm?

One gun between the two of them for any game excluding waterfowl. For waterfowl, the youth may have their own firearm so long as they are licensed.

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Originally Posted by BLR308

Also, the word "Share" is pretty implicit. You aren't sharing if there is a gun for the minor and a gun for the mentor even if they are not out of the case at the same time.

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As long as the apprentice and mentor are "sharing" only one firearm at a time,any other encased firearm which happens to be with them is beside the point. There is NO regulation,anywhere,that states hunters are only allowed one gun. Rick_isles Post #23 is very specific.

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Originally Posted by Sinker

Some of the crap that comes out here blowss my mind. Even after the actual reglation is posted, you still believe you cant have another encased gun? Really?

When my son and I start hunting on his apprentice license, i'll have my gun with us, encased, and unloaded. His will be locked and loaded. Once he shoots his limit, its my turn (if we're so lucky).

Show me a regulation, law, rule....anything that says I cant have my encased gun with me.

S.

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The old adage is true in this regard. You can lead a horse to water,but......;)

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Originally Posted by welsh

Actually, the question of what constitutes a shared firearm is entirely a matter of Ontario's FWCA, because the apprentice hunter program is an Ontario program (introduced by the Mike Harris government).

I'm not aware of any age limit in the Migratory Birds Convention Act. Provinces set regulations regarding who can hunt within their boundaries; the federal law exists to control the take. The only thing that might apply is that on the designated Waterfowler Heritage Days, a minor does not require a migratory birds permit. In this case, the federal regs say explicitly that the person accompanying the minor may not possess or use a firearm. But that would not apply if accompanying a licensed minor.

I did a quick search in the consolidated statutes and regulations for Ontario but can't find the actual wording that the excerpt from the hunters' safety course posted above is based on.

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You've spewed too much BS in this thread. You obviously have no clue what the rules are. Show me exactly where it states what I've bolded above in any regulation, whether under FWCA, or MBCA.

Thats what I thought.

Posession of a firearm is not an offence in any situation so long as you have a valid firearms license. Period. End of story.

If your extra gun is encased and unloaded there isn't a damn thing anyone can say or do about it as long as you have your PAL with you.

S.

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Originally Posted by chris1395

Sure you may get a CO that would let it slide. You may also get one that will not. How can you, beyond a reasonable doubt, prove that you are being legal when you have a second gun in the blind? Cased and locked how does a CO know you didn't have two guns out 10 minutes before they arrived? Or what if they are waiting at a checkpoint area and you both arrive with guns in cases? How do YOU prove to them you only had one out at a time? I guess how do THEY prove you did at the same time? Pretty difficult for everyone involved. In my mind it's easy, give your daughter the gun that works for her, give her the trigger time, and you make do, it's her passion you're trying to foster and grow. Who knows she may teach you something while you're watching;)

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We don't need to "prove" anything to anyone,for any reason. That's a fundamental right under The Charter. Firearms DO NOT need to be locked,either,only encased,as long as they under your direct control. How does a CO know you didn't have them out 10 minutes before they arrived? They don't and may NOT infer that you did. That,too,is illegal. There's no law that says you may not have more than one gun with you. Anymore,we really need to know and be cognizant of our civil rights and always be quick to exercise them.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

We don't need to "prove" anything to anyone,for any reason. That's a fundamental right under The Charter. Firearms DO NOT need to be locked,either,only encased,as long as they under your direct control. How does a CO know you didn't have them out 10 minutes before they arrived? They don't and may NOT infer that you did. That,too,is illegal. There's no law that says you may not have more than one gun with you. Anymore,we really need to know and be cognizant of our civil rights and always be quick to exercise them.

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Exactly you have to be caught in the act of committing the offence, if I am hunting out West we regularly bring a back up gun in the boat with us (encased of course) and will continue to do so. I have yet to meet a CO or an OPP officer who is "out to get someone" while in the field, quite the opposite actually and much of that probably has to do with the way I present and conduct myself while in their presence

The whole issue boils down to two words in the regulations, "carried" or "used". A shotgun in the corner of a duck blind encased, is neither "carried" or "used". Having said this, the regulations are open to interpretation by CO's, and I have seen some pretty bizzare interpretations over the years. Ultimately it will boil down to how a Justice interprets the regulations.

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Originally Posted by skeeter1

much of that probably has to do with the way I present and conduct myself while in their presence

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Pretty simple isnt it?

If you want to act like an Ahole expect to be treated like one.

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Originally Posted by Sinker

You've spewed too much BS in this thread. You obviously have no clue what the rules are. Show me exactly where it states what I've bolded above in any regulation, whether under FWCA, or MBCA.

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Migratory Birds Regulations, Section 5 (General Prohibitions):
(11) Despite subsections (1) and (3), a minor may hunt the migratory birds referred to in column 2 or column II, as the case may be, of Table I of any Part of Schedule I without a permit only during the days that are set out in that column, referred to in Table I as “Waterfowler Heritage Days”, if the person

(a) is lawfully able to hunt in the province or territory where the hunting will occur; and

(b) is accompanied by a migratory game bird hunting permit holder who is not a minor.

(12) The permit holder referred to in paragraph (11)(b) must not, during the days referred to in subsection (11)

(a) have in their possession or use a firearm while accompanying the minor; and

(b) accompany more than two minors at one time.

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Originally Posted by Sinker

Thats what I thought.

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Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

A minor may hunt without a licence on a designated Waterfowler Heritage Day, if accompanied by a mentor who is not permitted to "have in their possession" or use a firearm, although this does not apply to this specific case. That's exactly what I wrote before.


While you accuse me of spewing BS, note that I haven't said that having a second gun is definitely not allowed, only that it is arguably not allowed, and that this would depend on the judgment of a CO. So rather than relying on some guy on the Internet claiming he knows all the rules, you should ask a CO.

I'm not sure what part of "ask a CO" you find so offensive. I am not the only person here making that suggestion.

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Originally Posted by skeeter1

Exactly you have to be caught in the act of committing the offence....

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But what the offence actually is depends on how the law is worded. Nothing in the law here refers to you actually hunting. It is a requirement to share a single firearm. If this is interpreted to mean you can't have a second gun with you, then you commit the offence by having the second gun. And because the FWCA is absolute liability, what you intended to do with that second gun is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

... the regulations are open to interpretation by CO's, and I have seen some pretty bizzare interpretations over the years. Ultimately it will boil down to how a Justice interprets the regulations.

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This is my entire point. And as I've said before, I believe most COs, even if they thought the letter of the law said otherwise, would look at your encased gun, decide you were complying with the spirit of the law, and leave you alone.

Welsh, in the case of Heritage day the season is closed to all those but the minors correct? In that case it would make sense that the mentor should not have a firearm with him/her even if encased, but I'm still not sure that it is illegal if it is in the case.

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Originally Posted by skeeter1

Welsh, in the case of Heritage day the season is closed to all those but the minors correct? In that case it would make sense that the mentor should not have a firearm with him/her even if encased, but I'm still not sure that it is illegal if it is in the case.

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That's the rationale. If it's in the case, it's still in your possession, although just what "possession" means can be complicated. It would be like having a loaded gun with you in a place where wildlife is found, under the FWCA, just worded differently.

But of course this has nothing to do with the OP. I only brought it up originally to point out that nothing in the MBCA or Regulations actually affects the OP directly.