Health Clearances

Dominating in field trials has everything to do with being healthy. Your comments show how little you really know about all of it. Sore losers, people that aren't involved or don't have dogs that can be competitve always try to find ways to discredit the sport. It's a competition, not a test, everyone doesn't get a ribbon. Competition doesn't always bring out the best in people but it is a sure way to find out who the best dog is. The good, consitent dogs rise to the top and beat the "politics" the naysayers and sore losers always refer to.


Call it whatever you want but the English Pointer is the pinnacle of the pointing dog breeds. They out perform all others when it comes to strength, endurance, mental toughness, bird finding ability, etc. English setters are a close second and some of the best bird finders I know are setters. If any other breed could compete with the pointers or setters people would be running them. They have breed restricted field trials for a reason.


Don't worry we are looking under the bed and always watching. Again, do some research on FDSB english pointers and let me know what find.

I know first hand the English Pointer that was being developed in Scandanavian countries for dog sled sprint racing for the last 40 plus years. They are well known for endurance,mental toughness and healthy genetics compared to other working breeds. The fastest sprint dog teams run English Pointers because they are tough period. Many have also crossed these lines into breeding programs all over the world. If I was into the pointing breeds it would definately be an English Pointer but chose the most versatile breed the English Springer Spaniel . :)

Do I have to have one of these to partake in the Pointer games ??? Attachment 27197 :fish::fish:

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

I cannot confirm or deny this. ;)

I think something similar may have happened to get the setters we have today. :tongue:

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More recently,until the FDSB stopped allowing the registration of "Droppers", theGordon Setter folks were crossing out to put the bird dog back into theirbreed.
My original post was not meant as simply a joke. There has been crossbreeding going on in the bird dog world for as long as field competitions haveexisted. To the benefit of the all the breeds.

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Originally Posted by Tim Tufts

More recently,until the FDSB stopped allowing the registration of "Droppers", theGordon Setter folks were crossing out to put the bird dog back into theirbreed.
My original post was not meant as simply a joke. There has been crossbreeding going on in the bird dog world for as long as field competitions haveexisted. To the benefit of the all the breeds.

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I know it wasn't a joke there are a couple tri-colour pointers around. The recent requirement for DNA on Llewellen Setters is going to be the downfall of that line. Without the ability to bring in some english setter blood they are going to have trouble improving on what they have, their gene pool is pretty shallow.

I have been gone quite awhile but this has been an interesting read so I'm going to make a few comments. First, brucellosis was never anywhere near eradicated. Feral swine carry it. There are millions of them, and we hunt them with dogs. Brucellosis testing will always be extremely important.
Second, hip testing is a source of information, not a breeding criteria. It is a strength or a weakness of an individual, with relatively low heritability I might add. If you only breed "sound" dogs on paper, but ignore every other part of physiology that goes into making a hip joint, you will still have a high degree of displaystic individuals. Check the OFFA database on German shepherds and the incidence of Hd over time. It hasn't changed. The opposite is also true, you can breed a dog with a failing score, that is functionally sound, and aim for functional soundness and get it. You will still experience a low frequency of individuals with bad x-Rays, and an even lower number that have DJD, but less then most might think.

All of that said, in curs and hounds my experience would be that none of the tests are essential if you use your eyes and evaluate each dog as a complete dog, not a collection of health tests. We do OFA, we do PennHip, we do CERF test. It is all information that goes into any breeding decision, and more importantly helps to evaluate the line. The value of the tests to me has little to do with the individual, and a great deal to do with the frequency of incidence in the line. Those tests we perform are evaluating highly polygenic traits, so throwing out an exceptional dog because of a mild, moderate or severe hip test score would be idiocy in the extreme. Selling those puppies would also be irresponsible, so when we take that calculated risk, those puppies all stay home and get sorted through.

The last thought I will leave with is that cull doesn't have to be a taboo word. The essence of it means "remove from the gene pool." There are different ways to accomplish that, and far be it from me to judge other breeders on how or why they effect that once the decision is made that an individual is not to be bred under any circumstances. The word cull carries a very negative connotation, but that is partly of our own doing as dog people.

Fascinating discussion. I look forward to more of it.

Awesome reply and have to agree. I had a breeding program for almost 20 years with a particular working line of Siberian Husky. Hips and elbows were never an issue because the breeding program had already focused on that for the last 40 years when I took the line over. Each litter of pups would be evaluated using a series of measurements and documented to meet a specific criteria. If they didn't meet the criteria at the seven week to eight week stage they were not included in any future breeding program. They were culled from a breeding program not destroyed. If I introduced a bloodline that had a history of eye issues then yes eyes would have to be cleared if used in a breeding program. The working lines had no hip and elbow issues and their was no need to do these clearances.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

but chose the most versatile breed the English Springer Spaniel

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That's an awful large claim to stake on a forum such as this.

:) Yup

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Awesome reply and have to agree. I had a breeding program for almost 20 years with a particular working line of Siberian Husky. Hips and elbows were never an issue because the breeding program had already focused on that for the last 40 years when I took the line over. Each litter of pups would be evaluated using a series of measurements and documented to meet a specific criteria. If they didn't meet the criteria at the seven week to eight week stage they were not included in any future breeding program. They were culled from a breeding program not destroyed. If I introduced a bloodline that had a history of eye issues then yes eyes would have to be cleared if used in a breeding program. The working lines had no hip and elbow issues and their was no need to do these clearances.

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What measurements?
What criteria?
Specific to the breed or generic?