Lack of Big Bucks

Today, I spend about six hours hunting with my dog in the bush and the fields of WMU 82A.
Rabbits and grouse were our intended targets but they managed to elude us nicely. :whacked:

We went through dense forests with cedars and swampy areas, up and down hills and some rocky terrain too.
We walked the edges of farmland, and pretty much any other type of environment that you can imagine!
Snow on the ground made every track quite visible - from field mice to foxes, rabbits, and turkeys...

My dog and I covered a LOT of ground and saw at least 50 turkeys, some of which teased me by remaining close or flying low over my head. I enjoyed watching them and the pup enjoyed chasing them around!

What was interesting was a LACK of deer tracks!!! This is an area where I have seen many deer of all kinds and sizes over the years. There are always signs of deer even if you don't actually see them.
Today I looked very hard and saw only ONE lonely set of tracks and it was definitely not from a large buck. I also looked for trails and antler rubs, as well as scrapes, eaten twigs, droppings, etc. but the more I looked the less I found. Just saw one possible coyote track also. It wasn't very large either.

My friend spent a week at camp near there during rifle season and his gang of five harvested only one small deer in total.

All the evidence points at a large decrease in population due to the harsh winter last year. :sad:

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

Today, I spend about six hours hunting with my dog in the bush and the fields of WMU 82A.
Rabbits and grouse were our intended targets but they managed to elude us nicely. :whacked:

We went through dense forests with cedars and swampy areas, up and down hills and some rocky terrain too.
We walked the edges of farmland, and pretty much any other type of environment that you can imagine!
Snow on the ground made every track quite visible - from field mice to foxes, rabbits, and turkeys...

My dog and I covered a LOT of ground and saw at least 50 turkeys, some of which teased me by remaining close or flying low over my head. I enjoyed watching them and the pup enjoyed chasing them around!

What was interesting was a LACK of deer tracks!!! This is an area where I have seen many deer of all kinds and sizes over the years. There are always signs of deer even if you don't actually see them.
Today I looked very hard and saw only ONE lonely set of tracks and it was definitely not from a large buck. I also looked for trails and antler rubs, as well as scrapes, eaten twigs, droppings, etc. but the more I looked the less I found. Just saw one possible coyote track also. It wasn't very large either.

My friend spent a week at camp near there during rifle season and his gang of five harvested only one small deer in total.

All the evidence points at a large decrease in population due to the harsh winter last year. :sad:

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Very discouraging isn't it......I have decided to not hunt my one spot in 81a anymore this year. It has 50 acres of combined beans and 10 acres of standing beans and I took a walk the other day when we had a bit of snow and didnt cut one fresh deer track. About 15 different coyote tracks......I'll focus on them now....

Good plan SongDog.
Going after them coyotes should be on every hunter's winter agenda.

Here is one :) There are still a lot of deer tracks near Erin WMU 80

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U...o/PB150004.JPG

I have had some relatives drop 2 mature bucks during the nov shotgun. Just haven't seen the monsters (2-3) that are posted each year.

It's been a slow hunt for me this year for sure but not with numbers. Seeing tonnes of deer and plenty within range but no real "shooters". During our gun hunt we spotted two nice shooters too far out but that's about it. I have had two small bucks within range twice now but it is a bit unsettling to see them doing a bunch of the behaviours that big bucks do without even looking over their shoulder. Usually I find small bucks are nervous scrape and rub if there is a big boy around. Friday night I had two young bucks together at 10 yards (a 5 point and a 6 point). They were following a doe and two fawns trail that had went through 20 minutes earlier and they were acting like dogs. One would sniff the trail and the other would run over and knock it out of the way to get a sniff. The 5 pointer made two scrapes (big for how big he was) and rubbed every tree he could find in his path. I watch them for about 15 minutes until dark thinking the big boy can't be far behind but he never showed. I think I may shoot a doe here shortly if I don't start seeing more sign of big ones. Only know of a few monsters shot this year and I know a lot of guys that usually shoot big ones every year.

Ya agreed! I spend many days on stand and this is one of the worst seasons I can remember...Just returned from a hunt in the USA, the quality and numbers of deer far exceed what we have in Ontario. We could have some the same hunting as the big buck states south of the border but the attitudes of hunters here will need to change for that to happen. Where we hunted it was pretty much unwritten rules that nothing under 4pts a side were taken and if you wanted meat you shot does. I may stir the pot here but the same guys whining about not ever having a chance at a quality deer here in Ontario are the same ones plugging spikes and forkers during the controlled hunts..If you are a meat hunter that's fine and totally acceptable, just don't be the guy on one hand complaining about the buck situation and in next breath say how your group got 13bucks in the shotgun hunt and none over an 8pt basket. Can't have your cake and eat it too. These mature dominant bucks don't fall from the sky come October 1st. They manage the resource south of the border far superior to what we do, and there is alot more self control on the hunters part as well. It can happen here as well but there needs to be some education and change in our mindset. We have the genetics, the agricultural land/feed, the cover etc, just missing the time factor.

This may also be a sore point to some and it is my own personal opinion. Buckshot should be used on varmints and targets, its an ineffective killing tool on any big game animal and it does a disservice to the creature. Yes some will argue if kept under certain ranges it is great, but that rarely happens and far too many deer in this province are walking around carrying wounds and lead from unethical shooting practices. Whether it be a buck, doe, fawn, moose, bear etc we owe it to the animal to make an ethical harvest and put the animal down properly and with the least suffering. If the OFAH and MNRF were serious about managing what we currently enjoy in the province this should be a small first step that should be legislated. U can't hunt geese with number 7 bird shot or ducks with a rifle, so why is it we allow a spray and pray approach to big game hunting.....

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Originally Posted by biggamer

Ya agreed! I spend many days on stand and this is one of the worst seasons I can remember...Just returned from a hunt in the USA, the quality and numbers of deer far exceed what we have in Ontario. We could have some the same hunting as the big buck states south of the border but the attitudes of hunters here will need to change for that to happen. Where we hunted it was pretty much unwritten rules that nothing under 4pts a side were taken and if you wanted meat you shot does. I may stir the pot here but the same guys whining about not ever having a chance at a quality deer here in Ontario are the same ones plugging spikes and forkers during the controlled hunts..If you are a meat hunter that's fine and totally acceptable, just don't be the guy on one hand complaining about the buck situation and in next breath say how your group got 13bucks in the shotgun hunt and none over an 8pt basket. Can't have your cake and eat it too. These mature dominant bucks don't fall from the sky come October 1st. They manage the resource south of the border far superior to what we do, and there is alot more self control on the hunters part as well. It can happen here as well but there needs to be some education and change in our mindset. We have the genetics, the agricultural land/feed, the cover etc, just missing the time factor.

This may also be a sore point to some and it is my own personal opinion. Buckshot should be used on varmints and targets, its an ineffective killing tool on any big game animal and it does a disservice to the creature. Yes some will argue if kept under certain ranges it is great, but that rarely happens and far too many deer in this province are walking around carrying wounds and lead from unethical shooting practices. Whether it be a buck, doe, fawn, moose, bear etc we owe it to the animal to make an ethical harvest and put the animal down properly and with the least suffering. If the OFAH and MNRF were serious about managing what we currently enjoy in the province this should be a small first step that should be legislated. U can't hunt geese with number 7 bird shot or ducks with a rifle, so why is it we allow a spray and pray approach to big game hunting.....

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^^^^^^AND WE HAVE A WINNER!^^^^^^ Great post! Spot on! However, there is now no denying that last winter took out a large number of prime bucks. Either way we would have lost a good number of monsters due to the fact that they rut themselves skinny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by biggamer

Ya agreed! I spend many days on stand and this is one of the worst seasons I can remember...Just returned from a hunt in the USA, the quality and numbers of deer far exceed what we have in Ontario. We could have some the same hunting as the big buck states south of the border but the attitudes of hunters here will need to change for that to happen. Where we hunted it was pretty much unwritten rules that nothing under 4pts a side were taken and if you wanted meat you shot does. I may stir the pot here but the same guys whining about not ever having a chance at a quality deer here in Ontario are the same ones plugging spikes and forkers during the controlled hunts..If you are a meat hunter that's fine and totally acceptable, just don't be the guy on one hand complaining about the buck situation and in next breath say how your group got 13bucks in the shotgun hunt and none over an 8pt basket. Can't have your cake and eat it too. These mature dominant bucks don't fall from the sky come October 1st. They manage the resource south of the border far superior to what we do, and there is alot more self control on the hunters part as well. It can happen here as well but there needs to be some education and change in our mindset. We have the genetics, the agricultural land/feed, the cover etc, just missing the time factor.

This may also be a sore point to some and it is my own personal opinion. Buckshot should be used on varmints and targets, its an ineffective killing tool on any big game animal and it does a disservice to the creature. Yes some will argue if kept under certain ranges it is great, but that rarely happens and far too many deer in this province are walking around carrying wounds and lead from unethical shooting practices. Whether it be a buck, doe, fawn, moose, bear etc we owe it to the animal to make an ethical harvest and put the animal down properly and with the least suffering. If the OFAH and MNRF were serious about managing what we currently enjoy in the province this should be a small first step that should be legislated. U can't hunt geese with number 7 bird shot or ducks with a rifle, so why is it we allow a spray and pray approach to big game hunting.....

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Do you not think that maybe the two week long rifle hunt has something to do with the impatience of hunters? All the hunting is done in a week.. or two... how many bucks would you let pass when you only have one week? Do they have longer rifle seasons in the us?

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Originally Posted by topher

Do you not think that maybe the two week long rifle hunt has something to do with the impatience of hunters? All the hunting is done in a week.. or two... how many bucks would you let pass when you only have one week? Do they have longer rifle seasons in the us?

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Do you think folks would be a little more patient and selective about what they shoot and how they shoot it if they only had their own tag to use, and not their entire 15 person group? (not including the wives tags of course). I'm sure if downing and tagging an animal meant your exit to the woods for the season, there may be a little less 'spraying and praying'. I'm not sure MORE gun season will help the health of the Ontario deer herd?