any insight

Well said ! :) You should be a politician.

I hope I'm not on the "snob list" Gilroy. I'd rather be - like many others here - on the 50 years of gun dog experience list. When someone asks about getting a good BIRD dog , we try to give our best advice.

Yes rare breeds are rare for a reason - not ALWAYS a bad reason. Often has to do with geography as in the OP's case.

Inexperienced bird dog owners like the OP , will be seeking help. We like to recommend some type of
bird dog club help. If there's no club for his breed it may be a problem for him. Even spaniel owners struggle to get help in ON.

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There are so many different breeds of retrievers why is the lab so popular? It just is, for no other reason then just that, They all work just as well but only one could be the more popular. Any retrieving breed with the right trainer will be amazing. But most gravitate to the lab. Why?

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The lab is more popular because it is the F150 of the retriever breeds. good trainers cannot make good retrievers out of bad dogs. Your odds of getting a good lab are better than it is with other breeds, because there is more choice, of proven hunting talent When you choose a rare breed, your priority is not hunting talent, it is breed fancy. Plain & simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Labber

The lab is more popular because it is the F150 of the retriever breeds. good trainers cannot make good retrievers out of bad dogs. Your odds of getting a good lab are better than it is with other breeds, because there is more choice, of proven hunting talent When you choose a rare breed, your priority is not hunting talent, it is breed fancy. Plain & simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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"Breed Fancy" no its not breed francy and it's very much hunt talent. Like I said rare has a lot a lot to to do with popularity. The 150 is just the best bang for the buck there's better trucks out there they just cost more. This is a very common breed around the world just not in north amaerica.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

"Breed Fancy" no its not breed francy and it's very much hunt talent. Like I said rare has a lot a lot to to do with popularity. The 150 is just the best bang for the buck there's better trucks out there they just cost more. This is a very common breed around the world just not in north amaerica.

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Which is why I would source a pup somewhere where that breed is popular. You will benefit from a superior gene pool. Breeding programs strive to improve the breed so being limited to a minute amount of breeders to choose from and using them repeatedly just to keep the breed alive or sell pups here means you get the same genetic characteristics unless they are using European stud dogs. You state that you have hunted over them and like the dogs but have you also hunted over enough of the other breeds to discount them? Again, as many have said a GSP is not just a GSP and the same can be said of all breeds. The individual traits of a bloodline are a huge factor. For example my Brittany is heavy to field trial breeding and has many champions in the pedigree. Well I have never seen another Britt charge as hard and move as fast as mine does and that was bred into that pedigree. Doesn't make him better or worse just a product of selective breeding. In the end the bigger the sampling you do will give you the best information.

Thanks terrym
I have considered this. They have imported new males and female's from France.
Look I'm not getting the BF to be different and make a statement I'm getting it from what I have researched this breed has all the things I am looking for in a hunting dog. Forget trials. This dog will never see atrial I have no disire to compete this dog. And speed is the last quality I am looking for aswell. I want to hunt the whole day so a slower breed will have that stamina. I'm not out to clear a bush as quick as I can I want to enjoy my time out there

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Most of the people I know that own rare breeds own them to be a rare breed owner, not necessarily to have the best bird dog and there is nothing wrong with that. This is a thread about bird dogs and if you don't buy into the "rare breeds are rare for a reason" comment, you probably need to get out and watch more bird dogs because if you do the truth of that statement will become evident.

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One of the funnier comments I have read in a while.

When you can show me an everyday pointer or retriever that is equally as effective in the grouse woods as it is in the December boat blind hunting late season mallards then I will give your comment some consideration. Until then, the 'popular' breeds are completely useless to me.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunner

Thanks terrym
I have considered this. They have imported new males and female's from France.
Look I'm not getting the BF to be different and make a statement I'm getting it from what I have researched this breed has all the things I am looking for in a hunting dog. Forget trials. This dog will never see atrial I have no disire to compete this dog. And speed is the last quality I am looking for aswell. I want to hunt the whole day so a slower breed will have that stamina. I'm not out to clear a bush as quick as I can I want to enjoy my time out there

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Please don't get me wrong here. I used the trial example to emphasize the differences in bloodlines. You sound like the type of buyer who needs to avoid a FT heavy pedigree. Given what you are looking for I think you should also look into the Visla. The ones I have seen are short range and slower moving dogs. That also gets you birds don't kid yourself.

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Originally Posted by jobbershunting

One of the funnier comments I have read in a while.

When you can show me an everyday pointer or retriever that is equally as effective in the grouse woods as it is in the December boat blind hunting late season mallards then I will give your comment some consideration. Until then, the 'popular' breeds are completely useless to me.

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I don't think pointers are bred to hunt ducks so I don't understand the point you are making?

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Originally Posted by Labber

When you choose a rare breed, your priority is not hunting talent, it is breed fancy. Plain & simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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Could not be more incorrect.

I chose a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon because I wanted a dog that had a natural retrieving ability, a very strong nose and a coat that would allow for later season waterfowl hunting, in addition to upland hunting. More importantly, I wanted a dog for waterfowl that was not a Labrador. I wanted a dog that would be calm in all situations, a dog that matured quickly and a dog that didn't shed, that is not a Labrador.

Are there aspects of waterfowling that my Griffon's can't compare to a Labrador's abilities, absolutely. The excellent ability of a Labrador to take hand signals and their marking ability are two skills that my dogs are not as strong in. Does that make them any less effective, in some instances yes but in most, absolutely not. I just have to handle my dogs like they are Wirehaired Pointing Griffons and not Labradors.

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Originally Posted by terrym

I don't think pointers are bred to hunt ducks so I don't understand the point you are making?

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The conversation is on 'popular dogs' Terry. Jake owns pointers and his argument is they are better choice (among other 'popular breeds') for a reason. I am illustrating that his argument holds no weight because if I chose a 'popular breed' I would not be able to pursue the quarry of my choice with a 'popular dog' to the same level of success that I do.

Is that more clear?