JBen, every person I know that has gone through this, has hit the reset button and come out way better than before.
Good luck, but with hard work, you won't need it.
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JBen, every person I know that has gone through this, has hit the reset button and come out way better than before.
Good luck, but with hard work, you won't need it.
Yup had to do that multiple times over my working career. Good luck JBen !
Thanks guys, but really "am ok". Both my outlook and realities. Have been here before. Not the first time I've been laid off (though with severances very much in question that's "new"). Compared to 2008 when I had my wake up call (cancerous tumor, followed by divorce before the operation, all during the financial crises....
the point I'm making, is that while "ps" occasionally sees "curveballs", they live in different worlds. Don't really have to worry about job security, nor their futures. What "price" is that worth..........
Nor or do entire "branches" get wiped out for a) allegations b) the actions of a few in charge (see this wonderful admin). Seems to me the Unions and beuracrats, often forget what the real world is like
Where does the bulk of the provinces revenue go? See above.
55% salary/benefits
11% debt servicing
34% for "us"
are there too many?
are some over compensated?
how does anyone answer that? Well, at least in part by the taxpayers ability to pay.
those tax payers have a mean duo income of 75k, don't have the same benefits, nor the job security.
i don't know a single PS who had lost a job ever. Despite knowing quite a number......
/looks around the province and prices being paid by people far less fortunate than myself even.
/looks at soaring debt and taxes paying for everything/everyone
JBen I do understand where you are coming from. I had my own business for many years and it was a huge struggle for close to 10 years before I finally decided to shut it down and start over and go back to school. But it was the best training ground for me to learn how to be a responsible business man and understand the value of the dollar. I am very thankful for my current job as a manger for a mid size municipality where my education and past experience has benefited the tax payer. I have learned how to deal with all levels of stress in my working career effectively and respectfully. The biggest challenge working for a municipality is lack of manpower and the stress it creates trying to fulfill multiple roles. The last ten years municipalities that I have worked for do not rehire after a retirement but spread the work amongst staff.
I have seen many people legitimately go off on stress leave because of this reason and become seriously ill. I serve the taxpayer and from time to time remind my union maintenance staff of that as well. In fact it's an honor to serve the taxpayer ! I have saved the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of dollars or more over my 15 year municipal career. I know of a few others as well that work for municipal government that have done the same. Many of us do care and I know of some people who need to be reminded who pays their wages. But for the most part the people I have worked with in municipal government are extremely hard working people and are very appreciative.
Good post YD. Most people have no idea what it takes to be a public servant or the dedication most have to their job. They just see lucrative salaries and perks that are supposed to exist.
And JBen, I suspect you'll bounce right back with hardly a blip in your lifestyle.
JBen; well in my opinion everything happens for reason, some understand it sooner or later, worst case some never. I've been in your shoes and constantly am; as an IT Professional (Desktop Support/System Administrator) most of my jobs have been contracts. Simply cheap, expendable and ease to terminate. While I'm on a look out for IT Professional jobs, the prospect of being hired is getting slimmer due to higher number of young graduates and more unemployed professional IT in the market. It's all about connections now; rather quality/experience.
Personally I just get sick and tired of hearing about Liberals (Provincial or Federal) in the radio news, just makes me nauseous while driving. My dad tried to help me get a job in Peel Region so I could get into IT, apparently we're too honest and we don't grease palms (corruption/money) to get me inside. My dad got a job through sheer luck; but today without strong connections, forget it.
So right now, I am lucky to have understanding parents to give me a roof over my head, food on the table and other commodities. No worries I pay rent when I work; as a courier for now. When my unemployment finished while looking for IT Professional job, I had to basically take a job to pay rent and bills. With today's economy and Liberal's in power is just a disaster coming. People think it's just a breeze while I see a hurricane coming.
Aren't there all kinds of "green" jobs out there? Dalton and Wynnochio said there would be?
lol, I hear you there poltrojan. The majority in are shop our "lifers", with near everyone into their 40s and 10 years. Quite a number of us are over 50 and 20 years. So for those that are handcuffed to the rat race and trying to find employment with other Bay Street firms, they are up against thousands of Queens, Western recent grads....Guess what.......
very spiritual myself, and yep everything does happen for a reason. For myself, Im finding it quite liberating, and this is a great opportunity to do something different with my life. "Luckily" for me, I do have radically different perspectives about "what's important". If I end up somewhere rural, maybe being a "full time" photographer and the odd contract (within financial services). I've traded 10s of thousands in income, and the concrete jungle for a far happier and better quality of life......
Yellow dog, one of the reasons I try to avoid singling out any particular specific part of "PS" is that brush strokes rarely work. Some might accuse public servants of being lazy. Lots of truth to this, my neighbour (Ex AF with time in combat) now an engineer has spent time on both sides of the fence in water quality/control. He's worked for the govt (very high up) and private contractors. Both sides disgust him, corruption, inability to get things done, or on budget, and on and on...Notice I said....both sides....But then I look at him, or others in PS I know....they don't fit that bill...There are good and bad in all walks of life.
Same can be said of "dedication" Sawbill. Most people look at Bay Street and think everyone earns 100k, gets big bonuses, don't care about the public.....;) Looks at everyone in my shop, and many many friends who have been laid off over the past 10 years in other shops............And you know that when the topic of "PS" comes I have often defended the "monkeys on the treadmill" within it.
Am going to use "Teachers" for illustrative purposes.
Anyone here think teachers in Peru should earn say 75k (apprx guess what the avg here is), have great benefits, rich Pensions?
No? Why not? Well I assume its because the tax payers in Peru.......
The vast majority of people do not earn 75,000 (In fact that number is the mean DUO) and certainly don't have the security PS does. Neither job security, nor their futures ( only 35% of the population have Pensions).
One of my best friends is a nuclear physicist with OPG. He thinks they are way overpaid, in his 28years he's never been laid off, nor had to worry about it and he has his future secured.. Then again, being Ex AF s well, he understands what the "real" world is like.
Every guy I hunt with with either FF, or OPP.
They all know they are way over compensated. Especially these days, given the way arbitration works. Every single service will now be piggy backing off the OPPs salaries and recent obscene raises.
/points at the big picture, the provinces budget. How much is eaten up by Salaries/Benefits, Debt servicing, the growing debt..and a mere .35cents on the dollar coming back to us. And the vast majority of "us" in the real world which can be quite brutal and cut throat.
What price tag is that worth, being able to sleep at night knowing.......
I can clearly remember a time during 60's and 1970's when no one wanted to work for a municipality or any government job. Why because at that time our manufacturing sector in Ontario was very lucrative for people with less than a grade 12 education to make big money. I knew many people making over $25.00 hr and up to $32.00hr working in a factory with very little education. Municipal workers, PS were making much less than that at that time. It took many years of negotiating for a municipal worker to make a decent wage. I know that for a fact because my father worked for the municipality during the 1960's,70's and 80's as a park foreman. No one wanted to work for the municipality because it paid lousy wages compared to the local factories.
The manufacturing plants started moving out of Ontario during the late 1970's and 80's and fortunately the municipal workers were finally making better money after years of negotiating. My father always told me during the 60's and 1970's the workers that were hired as municipal workers were not the cream of the crop because of the low wages. The standards are much higher today and the workers are of a higher calibre.
I suspect your missing my point YD, which runs along the lines of X is only "worth" what people can afford to pay. Thats true of anything. You might think your "house" is worth $500,000 but if people can't afford it.....Would "teachers" be worth say 75,000 plus rich benefits in Peru when most of the population lives in hovels......?
There have been soooooooooooo studies, debates on this. Whether it's studies that show across the board "PS" earns in salary an avg of 13% more and has better benefits and has Pensions....Or per your post above. Used to be the well known trade off used to be job security and benefits but lower salaries.....Well......Funny, Merril Lynch Canada let some friend go on Thursday........
There are expressions about having "your cake and eating it to".
So I suppose it's arguable, that higher salaries are "better" for the people in various PS capacities. Perhaps they should join the rest of the world and accept less security and lower costing benefits.
How many municipalities have been crushed by plant closures, or have high unemployment (reduces the Munis tax revenue)....And now thanks to large OPP cost, tax burdens are sky rocketing. Some many even feeling they can't have OPP.
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspa...opp_costs.html
This was also in the news on Friday
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ling-1.3487133
Back in the fall Ontarios Union for electrical professionals grudgingly renegotiated their contract. I forget the specifics about the raises but do recall, they agreed to change their pensions from 80% tax payer funded to an even 50/50 Split.
/plays a fiddle.
Quote:
[COLOR=#000000]Mr. Chiarelli’s spokeswoman, Jordan Owens, said the raise will cost $5.3-million, but the company expects to save $5.64-million from contracting out. The pension concessions will see employees hired before 2005 pay 39 per cent of the contributions toward their pensions, up from 31 per cent, while employees hired after 2005 will have to pay 50 per cent. The rest will continue to be paid for by the province’s electricity users.
They still have very high paying jobs, likely never lose a night sleep worrying about job losses, way better job security and way better pensions (65% have none at all) than the people working hard so they one day don't have to.
Answers?
Who knows and certainly there will be those within PS who live pay check to pay check. But even "there" such a person still has it way better than same person, but for whom job loss is much higher risk, and for whom there is no Pension, and little hope of finding 2 nickels to save (especially these days with soaring Hydro/taxes).
But only need look around at the disparities to knows its screwed up. Especially given the vast majority don't have job security, don't have pensions, (see also ORPP and getting dinged for another 2% over and above everything else), are getting hammered by taxation, job losses, lower incomes (those who lose jobs, but find lower paying jobs to pay bills) and on and on.
And at every turn the Unions.....